Stop Safely Now (HVBJB): Mach-E Owners Biggest Fear - Facts and Info Thread

[ajmartineau]

Does anyone know the current average turnaround? 15 days is what I remember seeing but I'm not on here very much.
I just got the error today and I need to take my daughter to college in 2.5 weeks, from Seattle to Prescott (1500 miles each way). Yes, I've had the recall done and the dealer agreed to take the car now. The EV tech works tomorrow but is backed up.

Flying and ICE are not options.

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[DevSecOps]

Does anyone know the current average turnaround? 15 days is what I remember seeing but I'm not on here very much.
I just got the error today and I need to take my daughter to college in 2.5 weeks, from Seattle to Prescott (1500 miles each way). Yes, I've had the recall done and the dealer agreed to take the car now. The EV tech works tomorrow but is backed up.

Flying and ICE are not options.

Read the first post about your options. Most turn around times I've seen, as long as things go well, is about 3-5 working days.

 

[AZBill]

So, I just took delivery of my Route 1 in mid July. All software updates are complete. Planning a 700-mile round trip, starting Monday. Is “stop safely now” or any related issue something I need to worry about? Obviously, I don’t need the constant worry of getting stranded far from home. What say you experts? Take the Mach E or ICE? Thanks.

My Route 1 is now 13 months old and 18K miles. I just travelled almost 800 miles over the weekend, across the AZ and CA deserts with 4 fast charges and driving 75mph with some uphill grades (I-8 and I-10). No issues for me. I do not have the software update and do not care when they give me the OTA. I am driving my car like it was supposed to be driven.

I did have a "stop safely now" event in the Arizona desert on the way home, a really bad dust storm passed through and I had to pull over for that due to poor visibility. But I can testify that dust does not affect the contactors in any way.

 

[RAP]

Last updated:
07/22/22 (MAJOR part number revisions)
07/21/22 (Updated part numbers)
07/20/22 (Added additional post-recall full welding SSN)
07/19/22 (Added warranty claim and out of pocket costs)
07/18/22 (Added Canadian Phone Number & Post Recall SSN)
07/13/22 (modified language for server error & added triage info)
07/12/22 (added pictures)
07/09/22 (recalled recall)
07/05/22 (new part number)

PLEASE READ:

If you believe that you have HVBJB Failure - Either post or pre-recall - Please send a DM to myself (@DevSecOps ) or @WyldStallyn (or both of us) for triage. Include your VIN and dealership where the car is at. We will attempt to diagnose the failure and provide you with expedited assistance through Ford should it be HVBJB related.

HVBJB Failure Pre-Recall will require that you car be towed and you will get "Stop Safely Now"
HVBJB Failure Post-Recall will either be reduced power with a Service Vehicle Soon message or the same as the above pre-recall symptoms.

Regardless of the type of failure we recommend that you open a case with the BEV team at Ford using the phone numbers provided at the bottom of this post - (800) 392-3673 USA / (800) 565-3673 Canada. Please also follow the guidance in the section below for HVBJB Failure Recommendations To Stay Safe.

Please don't send us your VIN for general look-ups or other issues. Please post those requests here.

Preface:

The purpose of this post is to bring information together so that people can reference what is known about the HVBJB issue. While some of us might know more than we are publicly talking about, for confidentiality reasons, we cannot disclose everything. I'll do my best to help calm nerves, be honest and not violate agreements in the process. All of the information below has been discussed on this forum, extracted from posted DTC's and service repair orders or gathered via non-confidential communication.

I am an MME GTPE owner myself. My vehicle is just as susceptible as any other owner. Obviously, we all have our own way of mentally dealing with things. I, personally, do not worry about this happening to me and I don't think people should worry. We don't worry about flat tires, alternators, getting in an accident etc. Being prepared and having the necessary knowledge is not only relieving to the mind, but the best and only course of action in this case, as of now.

Finally, "Stop Safely Now" is a generic message and is used for many different critical faults. This post is specifically about the failure of the High Voltage Battery Junction Box.

Other commonly referred to names:

• Cold weather issues
• LVB Battery Failure
• HVJB Failure
• BECM Failure
• High Voltage Battery Issue

The problem:

In 2021 we had a few members starting to report that their cars would say "stop safely now". It was attributed by the forum members as something related to the cold as it was mostly happening to people in colder climates. Many people also attributed the issue to faulty LVB's most likely due to the fact that the MME previously had LVB issues. As time went on, a few of us attempted to reassure people that it wasn't LVBs at all. Obviously, those with repair orders, whom this affected had insight into what was happening. They received repair orders for the BECM and HVBJB. It came to light through this process and those of us with insight that it wasn't the LVB.

The LVB was often blamed early on because of the aforementioned previous issue and also because when the HVBJB fails it no longer charges the LVB. Thus, leaving the LVB to die. This is like an alternator going out in an ICE vehicle. The battery is dead, but only as a result of a bad alternator.

Many months ago, it was disclosed that temperature does play a part in the failure of the HVBJB, and that will be discussed further down.

When this happens, the driver will receive a "stop safely now" indicator followed by the car being bricked essentially. The car must be towed in and diagnostic codes will reveal that the contactors in the HVBJB are stuck, either open or closed.

In the affected vehicles, it is possible that the high voltage battery main contactors may overheat, which can result in an open contactor or welding condition. Should the contactors weld closed while driving, a powertrain malfunction warning light will be illuminated on the next drive cycle, along with a no start condition.

If the vehicle has had the recall software installed the symptoms can still be that of the above in a catastrophic failure but will more than likely be reduced power as indicated by grey "jail" bars on the power meter, or for non-gt vehicles a noticeable reduction in power, coupled with the message "Service Vehicle Soon".

The resolution:

When this happens, the only thing you can do is have the car towed and the HVBJB replaced along with the BECM (the BECM was originally replaced at the onset of this issue, but has since been determined to not need replacing). Some people report that it took 2 days while other dealers took months.

Update 06/03/22: Ford has a new version of the HVBJB that's now being installed into problematic cars. See this post and below.

Ford has issued a recall for this problem.

Prevalence:

Approximately 0.5%

Is my car immune to this:

Simple answer, no. This can happen to any MME, of any MY, in any climate, anywhere in the world built prior to May 24, 2022.

Is my car more prone to this:

GT models are far more prone to having HVBJB failure to due to higher draw of power.

Is temperature to blame:

As it was confirmed months ago on this forum by a Ford Engineer, temperature does play a role in this. It's not however, just cold and heat actually plays a larger role.

What is Ford doing:

Update: 06/03/22 - Ford is now fitting cars that have a defective HVBJB with a revised HVBJB. Further details will likely follow. See this post and below. This is for failed HVBJB incidents.

Ford has issued a recall for this problem. While not a "fix", it's supposed to mitigate risk, although that doesn't work all the time either.

Revised Part numbers:

Per Ford the NK4Z replaces other NK4Z modules and the LK9Z replaces other LK9Z modules therefore the part numbers have changed a lot from how I originally had them. LK9Z is the AWD/GT part. Dealers may very well order the -A versions of the parts however I have been all but guaranteed that those parts have been purged from their distribution network and replaced with the correct, most recent, version. Therefore, if you see your dealer ordering the -A version, don't worry, you'll get the correct revision.

NK4Z-10C666-C is for RWD and it replaces NK4Z-10C666-A and NK4Z-10C666-B
LK9Z-10C666-C / LK9Z-10C666-B fits both the AWD and the GT and it replaces LK9Z-10C666-A. The -B and -C versions are one in the same. This has been confirmed by Ford.

Can I have the part replaced under warranty?:

Ford will replace the HVBJB with the revised part, under warranty if you get any of the contactor stuck open/closed DTCs or if you get a DTC post recall about the contactors being on their last leg. As of this update on 07/19/22, they will not replace it unless the proper diagnostic codes are thrown.

Can I pay to have it replaced?:

Maybe ... Some people have reported that their dealership will not replace it unless there's an associated code indicating failure. Others have ordered the part which is about $750. I have yet to see someone pay for replacement but it's reported to be about $2k USD in labor.

Are parts available or on backorder:

The replacement HVBJBs are available. There's some on this forum who like to say otherwise and they are ill informed. As an example, my local parts depot has hundreds of them in stock. Ford is prepared for a wave of failures due to the recall software being installed. Many times when a dealer thinks that it's on backorder it's because they are ordering the old part number which is no longer available. This is just one of the reasons that it's important to get the Ford BEV team involved.

Will this be a recall:

Recall 22S41 is now in place.

See this post: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/safety-recall-22s41-2021-2022-mach-e-hvbjb-recall.18681/

On 07/09/22 the recall faced server errors preventing it's deployment at the dealer level temporarily. See this thread: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/no-hvbjb-software-recall-for-you-recall-the-recall.19486/

Can this happen even after the software recall:

Well yes it can, because it's not a fix here's one example where the vehicle isn't totally bricked but still has to have the HVBJB replaced. There's many just like it on the forum.

As of right now we have the following POST-recall SSN failures. These are failures that the software was supposed to prevent but didn't:

Confirmed: 2

What to do to prevent this from happening:

Nothing really... We've seen reports of members who have been driving up hills going the speed limit who have had failure and likewise we've seen members on their commute to the office have failure. While there are likely guaranteed actions to cause failure, there's no known preventative measures. Attempting to cause failure only accelerates what is seemingly inevitable with some HVBJBs. Anyone who says "don't drive fast" or "don't charge" should be regarded as ill informed. There's members who have had failure and never used a DCFC and there's members like me that have never had failure and I DCFC at least 3-4 times a week.

HVBJB Failure Recommendations To Stay Safe:

My personal recommendations -

• Back in to all parking spots
• Back in to the garage
• Install tow stickers (see here) (purchase here)
• Keep a tow card in the car (see here)
• Know the procedure for a dead LVB jump (refer to the manual here) - Page 267
• Know how to emergency tow the vehicle. Don't rely on the tow company. (refer to the manual here) - Page 271

If you experience "stop safely now" I would recommend -

• DO NOT attempt to start the car over and over! Save the LVB as much as possible and keep the car off
• As long as it's safe to do so, unlatch the hood but leave it shut, not latched, to keep the light off
• Roll down a window and close the door to keep the cabin lights off
• If you are at home, connect the LVB to a battery maintainer or charger
• If it were me, I would call my insurance roadside over Ford since they are much quicker, but that's up to you.
• Look to have it towed to an EV specialty dealer. They have the tools and battery lift to fix this. Ensure the dealer will accept the car before having it towed there.
• Get a case logged with Ford Immediately. Ford can put pressure on the dealer and expedite the replacement parts.

Important Ford Numbers:

Ford Roadside (to get towed):

(800) 241-3673

Ford customer support (to get a case started):

(800) 392-3673 - USA
(800) 565-3673 - Canada

Links to other beneficial resources:

How to tow an MME
Failure Survey
List of members with HVBJB failure
File a NHTSA complaint

Initialism used in this post:

BECM = Battery Energy Control Module
DTC = Diagnostic Trouble Code
EV = Electric Vechile
GTPE = GT Performance Edition
HVB = High Voltage Battery
HVBJB = High Voltage Battery Junction Box
LVB = Low Voltage Battery
MME = Mustang Mach E
MY = Model Year
SSN = Stop Safely Now

Other resources:

The HVBJB in the MME is not a unique component to Ford. It's an essential part of EVs. Contactors getting stuck also isn't new or unique to Ford. Using Google you might be able to find other instances in other makes (like this) with little nuggets of information that might just be very similar to the MME issues. Like the above link mentions, we have also seen members get similar errors when there's an electrical short, and it's not a HVBJB failure but presents its self similarly.

In closing:

If you think I should add information to this post, let me know and I'll be more than happy to consider it and maintain this post. As more information is made public or authorized for public consumption I'll update it as well. I'm not active much more on this forum due to all the negativity and hyperbole here, but felt this post was necessary because of all the outside communication I receive from other members.

Pictures:

These are pictures thanks to @markboris - his post - of the latest revision -C HVBJB for the AWD/GT Line:

This is the OLD - BAD version of the HVBJB thanks to @Scooby24 and his post here:

Hi. I am new to the forum and have had my 12v battery die on me twice now. ….coast to a stop. My Mach E GT HP is at Sunshine Ford. My VIN is 3FMTK4SX6NMA16714

am calling ford tomorrow per your suggestion!



if you can provide and further details Is greatly appreciated. Your post is awesome

rich

 

[DevSecOps]

Hi. I am new to the forum and have had my 12v battery die on me twice now. ….coast to a stop. My Mach E GT HP is at Sunshine Ford. My VIN is 3FMTK4SX6NMA16714

am calling ford tomorrow per your suggestion!



if you can provide and further details Is greatly appreciated. Your post is awesome

rich

I replied to your original thread. You don't have HVBJB failure. You can still, of course, call the BEV team at Ford tomorrow and get a case started, but it's not the result of the issue documented on the first page of this thread.

 

[RAP]

Thank you for your guidance

 

[back_at_it_19]

Does anyone know the current average turnaround? 15 days is what I remember seeing but I'm not on here very much.
I just got the error today and I need to take my daughter to college in 2.5 weeks, from Seattle to Prescott (1500 miles each way). Yes, I've had the recall done and the dealer agreed to take the car now. The EV tech works tomorrow but is backed up.

Flying and ICE are not options.

Interested in how it goes and with what dealer in the Seattle area. Good luck!!

 

[AllenXS]

Sounds like it may be luck of the draw. I was just about to post a POSITIVE comment on Ford's customer service, since they get a ton of angry flack but probably not much acknowledgement when they do things right. The Ford rep got my dealer to jump to it, followed up with me daily, and was just great to deal with.

Here's the funny/shake-my-head-in-disbelief follow up though. The service rep reached out and as a gesture of goodwill offered a complimentary year of the "Protect Maintenance Plan". Hey, I thought, that sounds like a nice gesture! So, what does that include? Basically free oil and filter changes.

I wrote back...you do realize we're talking about a battery electric vehicle, right?

I got a service credit for a year for a couple of hundred dollars.
maybe I’ll get my wheels rotated more often.

 

[jznd400]

Read the first post about your options. Most turn around times I've seen, as long as things go well, is about 3-5 working days.

@ajmartineau If you're in the Seattle area, Autonation Bellevue Ford just turned mine around last week in 3 days, although I had to go through Ford customer service to get the service department to respond. But once Ford got in touch, they were very good and it sounds like they've had a few HVBJB's go through already. DM me if you'd like more details on my experience.

 

[secretvampire]

My dealer is scheduling two months out for recall services so I didn't even bother making the appointment, jfc. So when is that stupid OTA update coming again? Taking a 1000 mile round-trip road trip next week and trying to tell myself not to worry about it, even though my GT has been pretty much issue free for the first 9 months/7k miles.

Well... I completed my 1300 mile round-trip (longer than I thought!) with no issues, lots and lots of fast charging sessions. Just get out there and drive, peeps. I had no problems at all outside of a couple of times at an EA charger bank where I had to change chargers because it was slow going at 30kWh rate, the next charger worked fine with 70-120kWh. Had some good conversations at a bunch of the stops too and also saw a new Lightning up close at one.

 

[zog]

Got my pony updated with the recall software this morning. It took about 30 min. No noticable difference in driving compared to before. Fingers crossed now it works!

 

[Shayne]

Last updated:
08/02/22 (Part number redaction / TSB)

Revised Part numbers:

All part numbers have been redacted because the information from Ford keeps changing. I've been told that there's no way to get an old HVBJB as they have all been pulled. So the part numbers really shouldn't be necessary anymore.

These are pictures thanks to @markboris - his post - of the latest revision -C HVBJB for the AWD/GT Line (NK4Z-10C666-C)

Part numbers are getting confusing. What was the original part number and was it the same for all? Invoice here say they put in a LJ9Z-10C666-A mid April. What is noted in TSB 22-2178.

Do you think these may change again or are not right?

 

[DevSecOps]

Part numbers are getting confusing. What was the original part number and was it the same for all? Invoice here say they put in a LJ9Z-10C666-A mid April. What is noted in TSB 22-2178.

Do you think these may change again or are not right?

As I said in my post and in the TSB thread, there's no reason for us to worry about part numbers. Ford has purged all the old parts from their depots and if the dealer orders the old one they'll get a new one.

This is why I've removed them completely and will not be adding them back.

 

[Shayne]

As I said in my post and in the TSB thread, there's no reason for us to worry about part numbers. Ford has purged all the old parts from their depots and if the dealer orders the old one they'll get a new one.

This is why I've removed them completely and will not be adding them back.

Hide and seek. What was the original part number again? They have part numbers correct and there are 3 different ones now. You note @markboris - his post - of the latest revision -C HVBJB for the AWD/GT Line and the pictures state the part number is NK4Z-10C666-C. That part number appears to correspond to the base model in the TSB not a GT or the extended version. Appears he may have the wrong part for the GT and part numbers are still important.

 

[markboris]

Hide and seek. What was the original part number again? They have part numbers correct and there are 3 different ones now. You note @markboris - his post - of the latest revision -C HVBJB for the AWD/GT Line and the pictures state the part number is NK4Z-10C666-C. That part number appears to correspond to the base model in the TSB not a GT or the extended version. Appears he may have the wrong part for the GT and part numbers are still important.

Hi, glad you brought this up. I've been busy working on several other projects on the car and traveling a lot so haven't updated my post on that board. I mainly got the HVBJB to check it out and take photos of it for others that were interested and to possibly have the part installed before mine craps out if it ever does. In talking to Todd, we figured out that my parts guy ordered the wrong part for my specific car (GT) so I have since returned the part (since I didn't use it, they took it back).

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