Tesla Announces Opening up of NACS (Tesla Plug) Charging Standard

[ab13]

wow you're really making me question my reality here. sometimes the EA cable is so heavy i use two hands to insert it into the hole... i'm going to need to bring a ruler or hit the gym or something....

I'm trying to find more detail on the specs. This CCS cable info was from a connector manufacturer, for the shorter cable.

Turns out that is for the 5 meter cable (link below), so not that short. Maybe this is a newer design, with older ones being thicker.

https://www.phoenixcontact.com/en-us/products/dc-charging-cable-ev-t1hpcc-dc500a-50m50ecbk11-1085658

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[SWO]

The problem is that, thanks to a stupid loophole, the world’s richest man is going to get a government handout for his electric car company

Has that been established? If the hardware is "open", yet the software to handshake on DCFC is still proprietary, that seems to go against the intent of the law.

 

[Jimrpa]

Um... I think the government subsidy is wasteful and stupid in general, and it would be doubly stupid if Tesla becomes eligible based upon one other fringe manufacturer adopting NACS. But I don't know why it matters that Musk is the world's richest man. Something is either good policy or not. All these manufacturers are majority-owned and run by rich people.

The policy question is a separate one. I find it absurd that, regardless of your stand on the policy question, that a bizarre technical loophole will potentially be used to subsidize the car company of the richest man in the world. But what I think doesn’t matter.

 

[dbsb3233]

Does anyone know the percentage breakdown, by manufacturer, of EVs that are currently registered in the United States? I tried to look that up but all I could find were recent sales (Tesla still made up over 60% of all sales so far in 2022).

I’m guessing the percentage of total registered EVs would have to still top 80% in the US?

Anyway, if anyone knows where to find that data, I’d sure be interested to know.

Likewise, and this should be easier to ascertain, what is the percentage of Tesla versus CCS DCFC chargers in the US? Would appreciate sources.

I think both percentages are going to move steadily away from Tesla, but I honestly don’t know where they currently stand.

UPDATE: A handful of states do report the number of EV registrations by manufacturer. These reports are compiled here: State EV Registration Data – Atlas EV Hub

This is not nationwide, and the data doesn't include every state. But here are a few states with the most recent data:
- California, as of January 2021, 628k EVs, 41.6% Tesla
- Colorado, as of June 2022, 56,235 EVs, 42.4% Tesla
- Florida, as of July 2021, 90,165 EVs, 61.4% Tesla
- Texas, as of April 2022, 118k EVs, 59.4% Tesla

I am frankly shocked by these numbers. I expected the Tesla overall percentage to be somewhere around 75%. Based upon this sampling, the Tesla percentage could be closer to 50%. Now obviously Tesla remains the market leader - but has CCS already overtaken NACS?!

Even though Tesla had nearly a decade head start, even they didn't really start selling in big numbers until 2018. Everything before that was pretty minor.

 

[Say Watt]

Do tesla owners even know how to use a gun?


Edit: jk... I don't recommend f'ing around to find out.

Apparently...

https://www.boringcompany.com/not-a-flamethrower

 

[Glen Boise]

Has that been established? If the hardware is "open", yet the software to handshake on DCFC is still proprietary, that seems to go against the intent of the law.

As long as the SuperCharger network remain Proprietary, charging just Tesla's, then Tesla will not qualify for Federal infrastructure money. That is the official reason for excluding Tesla from Federal funding. Besides, the Biden Administration has no love for Elon. Remember all those times that President Biden was showing off BEV's last year and ignored Tesla. Aptera using Tesla plugs will not make any difference.
What we are more likely to see is charging competitors, like EA, adding Tesla plugs to their chargers. EA could see it helping increase traffic at low volume, rural sites by adding more potential customers. Think traffic in North Dakota, not L. A. A Tesla plug would be more convenient than using an adapter. It would benefit Tesla by expanding the compatible charger network without any investment from Tesla.

 

[ChasingCoral]

What we are more likely to see is charging competitors, like EA, adding Tesla plugs to their chargers. EA could see it helping increase traffic at low volume, rural sites by adding more potential customers. Think traffic in North Dakota, not L. A. A Tesla plug would be more convenient than using an adapter. It would benefit Tesla by expanding the compatible charger network without any investment from Tesla.

Many EVGo stations already have Tesla connectors on them:
https://www.evgo.com/tesla/

 

[khorton]

After looking at the specs it seems the Tesla DC cable diameter is about 34 mm. While the CCS is about 35 mm. So not much difference. These are likely maximums, and maybe the Tesla cables that are thinner are not cooled? Tesla current rating is based on temperature, so you have reduced current at higher temperature.

It might also be that longer CCS cables are thicker, but I didn't see that spec anywhere yet.

The Tesla Supercharger cables differ between the earlier V1 and V2 Superchargers, and the current V3 ones. V1 Superchargers are fairly rare. V2 charge up to 150kW, and have relatively thick cables, with no active cooling. V3 is good for 250 kW, and added liquid cooling , which allowed them to make the cables noticeably thinner, as the copper conductors could be much smaller diameter.

I suspect the 34mm spec is for V2 Superchargers. V3 looks to be closer to 25mm, IIRC.

 

[ChasingCoral]

The problem is that, thanks to a stupid loophole, the world’s richest man is going to get a government handout for his electric car company

Maybe. Don't forget the NEVI guidance already limits applicable systems to CCS:

• EV charging infrastructure includes at least four 150kW Direct Current (DC) Fast Chargers
  with Combined Charging System (CCS) ports capable of simultaneously DC charging four
  EVs;

 

[silverelan]

As long as the SuperCharger network remain Proprietary, charging just Tesla's, then Tesla will not qualify for Federal infrastructure money. That is the official reason for excluding Tesla from Federal funding. Besides, the Biden Administration has no love for Elon. Remember all those times that President Biden was showing off BEV's last year and ignored Tesla. Aptera using Tesla plugs will not make any difference.
What we are more likely to see is charging competitors, like EA, adding Tesla plugs to their chargers. EA could see it helping increase traffic at low volume, rural sites by adding more potential customers. Think traffic in North Dakota, not L. A. A Tesla plug would be more convenient than using an adapter. It would benefit Tesla by expanding the compatible charger network without any investment from Tesla.

charging companies will want to offer a Tesla plug to increase revenue opportunities. EA’s new Gen4 chargers actually disfavor Tesla because there’s only one charging cable now.

I fully expect EVgo to offer Tesla shaped plugs relatively soon (as long as they don’t have to give up their own IP).

 

[jeng]

Does NACS offer V2G capability? That is a major advantage for CCS if it doesn't.

 

[jeng]

So the NACS does offer V2G capability. Here's the section from NACS's technical specs:

4.6.1 The North American Charging Standard is compatible with Vehicle to X (i.e. Vehicle to load, Vehicle to home, vehicle
to grid) power transfer. Future versions of this technical specification will specify the functional requirements and specifications required to achieve vehicle to X power transfer.

That is literally all there is in the spec. Just the promise that it will be supported. The all important how is suspiciously missing. So will future Teslas support the industry standard protocols for V2G, or will Tesla devise its own proprietary protocol that an EVSE manufacturer will have to license to get V2G to work for Teslas. The needed protocols and software needed to allow other manufacturers to charge Teslas are also missing. This all sounds like a trap to me. Why would any EVSE manufacturer who has already invested time and effort to learn and implement all of the industry standard charging protocols for CSS want to basically start all over again for NACS.

 

[Chicago-E]

I noticed the cable length spec for DC is only 2 meters. That would certainly cause placement issues.

Also, does it support V2x

Cable length was one of the smarter things Tesla did. They are able to use a short cable since every Tesla has its charge port on the drivers side rear quarter panel. Every car has to park the same way make it easy to have a short cable. This allows for a more flexible cable because at the shorter length less cooling and lower gauge wire is required.

I fully believe that charge port location should be standardized along with the connector.

 

[dbsb3233]

Cable length was one of the smarter things Tesla did. They are able to use a short cable since every Tesla has its charge port on the drivers side rear quarter panel. Every car has to park the same way make it easy to have a short cable. This allows for a more flexible cable because at the shorter length less cooling and lower gauge wire is required.

I fully believe that charge port location should be standardized along with the connector.

Smart if only wanting to provide service to their own vehicles. But a big problem if they want to sell charging services to others (and get all those tax dollars for it). There won't be a standardized port location for all manufacturers, nor would that fully work anyway, as some vehicles pull trailers. Or are extra large, or have some other issue that make backing in impractical.

 

[Logal727]

So we’re thinking that CCS charging at Superchargers probably isn’t coming to US now?

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