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Tesla model 3 Performance has 80.5kWh battery pack, 250kW charging capabilities but takes 40 minutes to charge?

mark360

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It's rare to hear bad experiences with Tesla road tripping, with all the owners I know. I couldn't think of a better road trip car.
Any ICE vehicle is better than road tripping in a Tesla lol, many places I went I had to use L2 chargers with no superchargers available.
 

mark360

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Modern heat pumps have a wide range, and can typically be effective below 0. That said, there is generally a a limit between hot and cold side, but that can be increased with a multi-stage, and generally have lower efficiency at lower temperatures, but still effective.
No, typical heat pumps are not effective below zero. They will blow out cold air at zero F, and have very limiting heating BTU capacity especially compared to an ICE or typical Restive heating elements. You are trading efficiency for heating BTU capacity with a heat pump. A good example is a lot of A/C units will have what's called an emergency heat option that can be programmed. An emergency heat works by either having a LP furnace or electrical heating elements in the AC unit itself to cover when it gets too cold outside. A multistage heat pump is exactly what I am describing. It uses a electrical heating element that can have different power output to them instead of full power heat on and heat off. So 25%, 50%, 100% for example. Instead of 100% full power. That is not a heat pump lol, that is resistive heating because the heat pump can't operate below about 40F efficiently.

The means by which the Model Y "heat pump" works is it runs fluid through the motors and as such to be effective require an operator to be running the motors hard and at it's upper thermal limits (Trading energy for heat in some form). In the winter, this will further keep the motors cold. Normal AC motors under light load will run temperature wise around 120F-150F with an ambient temperature at 80F. That means in the winter you can expect those temps to drop even further. An ICE heat exchanger for example operates at ~200F no matter the OAT and will always provide consistent heat. Same with the resistive style heater. An ICE engine is only 60% efficient so it has plenty of capacity (40%) wasted in thermal loss. An Electric motor is typically >90% at converting energy so they don't get near as hot.

If you think you can be warm in 0F with a heat pump knock your socks off though. The Model Y has resistive heaters for when it gets cold and the motors are cold and can not provide heat. Those resistive heaters are the motors.


Model Y "Heat Pump" design used more energy to heat the vehicle and took longer than the Model S traditional Restive heating and they are within 5cuft of space on the inside. As relative to the battery size, Model Y used 15% whereas model S used 10%. This is exactly why I and many others got rid of their Tesla. Over promising and under delivering on so called innovations.

Battery size matters and I think Ford will have much better cold weather performance because of their 100kw pack.
 
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Billyk24

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ICE efficiency at 60 %? Is it really that high? I have read of 23%?
 
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Billyk24

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Any ICE vehicle is better than road tripping in a Tesla lol, many places I went I had to use L2 chargers with no superchargers available.
LOL no.

I kept my Mustang around for road trips after I bought the Tesla. Six months later when I'd put 7,000 miles on the Tesla and 50 miles on the Mustang, I sold the Mustang.

I'd never road trip in ICE over BEV, come on.
 
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LOL no.

I kept my Mustang around for road trips after I bought the Tesla. Six months later when I'd put 7,000 miles on the Tesla and 50 miles on the Mustang, I sold the Mustang.

I'd never road trip in ICE over BEV, come on.
You never road trip to West Yellowstone in an EV with a CCS port.
 

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Why wouldn't you want to arrive under 20%?
Battery life. The bigger your discharge/recharge range, the more stress on the battery and faster battery degradation. Fast DC charging is already harder on the battery.

10%-85% is considered best compromise for traveling.
 

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That isn't true for the Y, since it has no electric supplemental heater.
I believe it does have the same 4kW heater as the heat pump doesn't begin to work until the motor and battery generate heat, 20 minutes of driving maybe, just like the ICE cars.

As for MachE not having one, only the Model Y has a heat pump. Expect to lose about 20% range in Winter due to the cold.
 

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Why wouldn't you want to arrive under 20%?
Another reason could be if someone is not on a rigidly planned drive, and they want the flexibility to spontaneously drive off route that might add 30-40 miles. In other words - allow for some flexibility.
 

dbsb3233

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Expect to lose about 20% range in Winter due to the cold.
I will be curious to see how much the cabin heater reduces range, because I know I'm not relying on just heated seats and seated steering wheel in the cold. I want warm air in the cabin too. Just because my butt and fingers are warm doesn't mean I want a cold nose. And I'm not spending 60 grand on a car only to be afraid to turn on the heat.

Fortunately for us, it won't matter a lot how much range we lose in the winter because pretty much all of our winter driving will be short drives around home (where we'll have plenty of range from nightly home charges). We almost never do road trips during the winter. Sometimes we'll get caught in a spring or fall cool spell driving across the mountains, but rarely below freezing.
 

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If you set a go time while connected to your home charger. Would that also warm the cabin, etc for you? If so, that would mitigate some of the range loss. Those are legitimate concerns for most though. While temperatures will dip down into the upper 30's (3C or so) around here overnight and not get much over 50 at times, range is never an issue for me.
 

dbsb3233

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If you set a go time while connected to your home charger. Would that also warm the cabin, etc for you? If so, that would mitigate some of the range loss. Those are legitimate concerns for most though. While temperatures will dip down into the upper 30's (3C or so) around here overnight and not get much over 50 at times, range is never an issue for me.
It would, but we're retired so none of our drives are at a regular time. It's just "Well, why don't we go have lunch and make a Costco run" type of thing. Rarely pre-planned.

Not sure if we'll get in the habit of pulling out the phone once we decide to head out, start the climate control, then wait 10 minutes before leaving. I guess it depends on how cold it is, and how long it takes to warm up (or cool down in the summer). I rarely use the remote start feature on our Escape, but sometimes. Usually it's just a "decide to go so we just go" thing. Although we have a big garage so the car is never super hot or cold at home.

I'm more looking forward to turning on the climate control remotely 5 minutes before we're ready to leave a restaurant or the store, so the car isn't baking in the sun when we open the doors.
 

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It's rare to hear bad experiences with Tesla road tripping, with all the owners I know. I couldn't think of a better road trip car.
Nothing but bad road experiences with my Model S. I don’t even use it for long trips any more. Everything from poor seat comfort, rattles, road noise, low confidence in range meter, lines at SuperCharger stations or having to change Superchargers because the one you plugged into barely charges.....I could go on.
 



 










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