Tesla model 3 Performance has 80.5kWh battery pack, 250kW charging capabilities but takes 40 minutes to charge?

Kamuelaflyer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2020
Threads
9
Messages
7,922
Reaction score
15,843
Location
Hawaii
Vehicles
2021 Premium Infinite Blue. ER AWD. 2020 Raptor
Country flag
If you can afford both then I would say it's a no brainer.
That's a very important point. Having a BEV as a sole vehicle can be rather daunting for many. For those in a fortuitous location, perhaps not. But I'd have to give very serious consideration to the ramifications of a BEV as my sole vehicle if I lived on the mainland and didn't have solar power to charge my car.
Sponsored

 

mark360

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
303
Reaction score
348
Location
North Carolina
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3 AWD(OLD), Ford Raptor
Occupation
Manufacturing
Country flag
The EPA numbers are extremely misleading. They are always done on the most ideal car, in the most ideal climate and speeds. I'll give you a perfect example - the Aero Wheels on the Model 3 impacted EPA range by 15%. To break it down, if you ordered say the 19" wheels on the Model 3 your EPA range would go from 315 miles with the aero wheels to 267-283miles with the normal looking 19s. This is a well known and documented observation among Tesla owners. It's also why I never got rid of my 18" aero cover wheels.



BUT what Tesla does get right is the following:
From my research and watching Sandy Murano it always had to do with their in house approach to a lot of key engineering design elements. AC/DC inverter, high efficiency motors (>95% of converting KW to usable power), & car aerodynamics. Their cars have been engineered to have the lowest coefficient of drag possible with today's current technology. Their motors are special built to meet certain power conversion efficiency, and their DC to AC inverter that takes the power out of the battery and sends it to the motors - is all the highest efficiency possible with current tech. This allowed them to come out of the gate with a very efficient car. They went all in with spending billions doing the above. Most other car manufactures didn't want to spend billions to stick their neck out there. Now that Tesla has proved the market is there for them, they are willing to spend the billions and compete. Every EV before Tesla was basically a compliance car missing the state of the art technology Tesla spent billions developing. It's because they know the huge uphill battle that comes with electrification. Rome wasn't built in a day. Electrifying the US with fast chargers and making it as easy as ICE is about as daunting as one could imagine.

All of these individual components can add 1-2% efficiency here and there. The difference is that nothing is stopping Ford, VW, etc from doing the exact same thing. It's honestly not difficult relatively speaking to an ICE engine; which is about 100x more complicated than a typical AC motor, ACDC inverter, aerodynamic designs.

But then again, if you rely so heavily on aerodynamic design you can see that Tesla's model 3 EPA range suffers significantly and all those innovations are thrown out the window and R&D. So it really is a balance between finding the most optimal combination of technology to satisfy the customers demands.
 
Last edited:

mark360

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
303
Reaction score
348
Location
North Carolina
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3 AWD(OLD), Ford Raptor
Occupation
Manufacturing
Country flag
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...40-electrified-vehicles-by-2022-idUSKBN1F30YZ

Ford is already on par on paper with Mach E to a Model Y imo. Keep in mind this is their first model, and they've hit the nail on pretty much every buyers objective for a successful EV:

  1. 300+ mile range
  2. 150KW Fast charging
  3. Technology
  4. Price
  5. Performance
  6. Style
Keep in mind it took Tesla ~10 years to get to the model 3. Ford is pretty much there out of the gate. What do you think will happen when Ford gets the momentum going? What about their Electric F150 set to debut soon?
 

mark360

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
303
Reaction score
348
Location
North Carolina
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3 AWD(OLD), Ford Raptor
Occupation
Manufacturing
Country flag
To explain better:

But then again, if you rely so heavily on aerodynamic design you can see that Tesla's model 3 EPA range suffers significantly just based off your wheel choice. Tesla has always tried to maximize every ounce of range out of their batteries, to help lower cost. What this in turn does is make the buyer aware of their inefficiencies. Same with the heaters for the cabin. IF they put a 100KW battery in the Model 3, using heat would proportionally go down as a percentage of the overall battery. I.E the Model S using 10% of battery vs Model Y using 15% of battery. But would people pay the extra cost? Probably Not. But Guess what? Ford managed to do it for the same cost (99kw battery in E vs Tesla 74KW in 3/Y)

The reason you have these discrepancies and high power drain scenarios is because an electric car by nature is the most efficient and cost effective way to travel. 1 gallons of gasoline has the energy potential of 33KW/hr. That means the Model 3 battery has ~2.5 gallons of gasoline relative. This is why we see such huge swings with very minor changes in aerodynamics, wheels, weight, using heat, AC, etc. All those variables make up a larger proportional impact vs an ICE engine.

Most buyer's don't even realize that a ICE engine is only about 20-40% efficient at converting the fuel in your gas tank. That is why Aerodynamics, Tires, ETC don't play near the impact as an EV. The process is already very inefficient.

An Electric motor is >95% efficient at converting energy. That is very very good.

Ford managed to keep an excellent design, with their wheels and overall look. In order to get the range they had to go with 99KW. That will help them. They designed their EV with a different mantra then Tesla. Make a Badass electric car.

Tesla sacrifices on their design, which is why the Model 3/Y are identical looking, and have the ugliest wheels on planet earth. They want the most efficient and cheapest car to make for their customers that meet the demands of those same customers.

So it really is a balance between finding the most optimal combination of technology to satisfy the customers demands.
 

mark360

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
303
Reaction score
348
Location
North Carolina
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3 AWD(OLD), Ford Raptor
Occupation
Manufacturing
Country flag
It will be around ~3.5miles/KW
 


mark360

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
303
Reaction score
348
Location
North Carolina
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3 AWD(OLD), Ford Raptor
Occupation
Manufacturing
Country flag
What speed? I can tell you based off speed from my past experience with Model 3. EPA average puts it ~3.5miles/kw
 

mark360

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
303
Reaction score
348
Location
North Carolina
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3 AWD(OLD), Ford Raptor
Occupation
Manufacturing
Country flag
OK, EPA test is completed at 65MPH. So at 75MPH the increased drag will reduce range by about 50 miles. So 250 miles available at that speed. Will change based on winds, OAT (outside air temp), etc.

See why owning an EV is a compromise? Lol. It's not a lifestyle for everyone and one I soon came to hate.
Sponsored

 
 




Top