Tesla QUADRUPLED Supercharger Prices Overnight

RickMachE

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Given your scenario I would put Stabil gas stabilizer in her tank. Gas goes bad and can cause troubles in your fuel system.
I would recommend that @malthusunc read the manual on the Jeep (likely available online before delivery) and follow those instructions.

First, most auto manufacturers recommend no additives of any type go in the vehicle. If an additive is needed, then the manufacturer will specifically call it out.

Second, the auto makers address this with the design of the vehicle. Our 2018 Fusion Energi was designed to monitor how often the gas engine was used, and would run the gas engine to prevent fuel problems. Also, the fuel system was pressurized to prevent air entering, and you had to hold a button for the system to depressurize and the fuel door to open.

Fuel Freshness Mode (If Equipped)
This helps keep the fuel system functional and the fuel fresh. If you mainly use your vehicle in electric power mode without refueling, the gasoline in the fuel tank may become stale due to
aging. Stale gasoline can damage the engine and fuel system. Your vehicle automatically switches to fuel freshness mode if you do not refuel your vehicle with fresh fuel within an 18-month period. Fuel freshness mode protects your vehicle from potential engine and fuel
system damage caused by using stale fuel. Note: If you do not add new fuel during an
18-month period, fuel freshness mode will use fuel until approximately 1.2 gal (4.5 L)
of fuel remains in the fuel tank.

During fuel freshness mode:
• The information display will indicate fuel freshness mode is active.
• The vehicle will only run in hybrid mode. EV Now mode will not be available.
• Most of the plug-in power will be stored until fuel freshness mode is completed.
Note: EV Now mode resumes when less than 1.2 gal (4.5 L) of fuel remains in the fuel tank.
Note: When the fuel level is less than one-quarter full, refueling your vehicle will end fuel freshness mode.
Note: We recommend you use a fuel stabilizer if you use less than a full tank of fuel during an 18-month period.
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BadgerGreg

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The math doesn't paint this as a terribly bad scenario; if anything, Tesla was seriously undercharging for electricity before this. Their 100-180 kW tier, $0.84 per minute, works out to about $0.35-$0.40 per kWh, assuming you're charging at 120-140 kW.

If this is what they plan to charge non-Teslas (assuming they ever open up their system as promised), I would be absolutely ok paying the new rate, given the convenience.

I'm sure that Tesla has been (until now) taking a significant loss on the charging infrastructure, given the huge amounts they pay utility companies to have access to such high electricity demand. I think they're tweaking things to get closer to a break-even. Opening the charging network to non-Teslas will help get them there, because the only way to make money on these stations is to have them close to fully-utilized.
 

ChasingCoral

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The price increases are probably coming to all chargers, not only Tesla. It's hard to imagine that inflation wouldn't affect electricity costs when all commodities getting more expensive.

Here’sa key frame from that video:
Ford Mustang Mach-E Tesla QUADRUPLED Supercharger Prices Overnight 897FAAA1-26EC-4A7F-95E2-D17CD93F77EC

Ouch! Mach E charging would be $0.84/min! That’s over 2.5X EA’s non-member rate ($0.32/min) and 3X EA’s member rate ($0.24/min).
 
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ChasingCoral

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Given your scenario I would put Stabil gas stabilizer in her tank. Gas goes bad and can cause troubles in your fuel system.
I predict in the next year someone comes out with additives to help EVs run smoother ;)
 

BadgerGreg

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Here’sa key frame from that video:
Ford Mustang Mach-E Tesla QUADRUPLED Supercharger Prices Overnight 897FAAA1-26EC-4A7F-95E2-D17CD93F77EC

Ouch! Mach E charging would be $0.84/min! That’s twice the EA non-member rate and almost triple the EA member rate.
It's a bit misleading. EA charges $0.31-$0.43 per kWh (not minute). The Tesla math for the 100-180 range is $0.35-$0.40 per kWh, assuming you're pulling 120-140 kW. It's a bit higher than with an EA membership, but not really that much higher.
 


RickMachE

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Again, any source other than this video? Why isn't the internet screaming about this?
 

ChasingCoral

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It's a bit misleading. EA charges $0.31-$0.43 per kWh (not minute). The Tesla math for the 100-180 range is $0.35-$0.40 per kWh, assuming you're pulling 120-140 kW. It's a bit higher than with an EA membership, but not really that much higher.
Actually it’s worse than what I typed. Remember EA has by minute pricing where it is required. I just corrected my post as you were responding.
Ford Mustang Mach-E Tesla QUADRUPLED Supercharger Prices Overnight A8ED6229-8214-4049-A0B1-C196B7C332D7
 

generaltso

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I don’t think plug-in hybrids will be more popular than straight EVs. My wife has a BMW X5 xDrive45i- can go 30 miles of pure electric before the ICE kicks on. There are lots of downsides I’m sure apply to all plug ins:
1. During battery only driving, it is horribly inefficient. She gets about 1.5 miles per Kwhr on a good day. You’re taking an ICE for a ride and she’s heavy.
2. If driving on ICE alone, mpg is worse than a compatible X5 without an electric engine/battery.
3. If on electric only mode, the small electric engine is very slow at accelerating the car.
4. No DC fast charging, charging rate at home is slower.

I wish they made a pureEV version of this car.
Those don't necessarily apply to all PHEVs. My wife's RAV4 Prime isn't as bad as your BMW in some regards.

1. I see the same EV efficiency in the RAV4 Prime that I do in the MME. It's EPA rated for 42 miles of EV range, but we regularly get 50+.
2. The fuel efficiency on gas is great. It's rated for 40mpg in the city, but we get around 43mpg around town.
3. If you want the full 302 horsepower, you do need to fire up the ICE. But there's plenty of pulling power provided by the electric motors on each axle without it, so we never do.
4. The RAV4 Prime also does not support DCFC (like most PHEVs). But I never really understood the purpose of DCFC on a PHEV. DCFC is rarely free, and the cost is not usually less than gas. The gas tank is a PHEV's version of fast charging.
 

RickMachE

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Actually it’s worse than what I typed. Remember EA has by minute pricing where it is required. I just corrected my post as you were responding.
Right. I posted in another thread the list of EA states that charge by the minute and it's considerable.
 

BadgerGreg

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Actually it’s worse than what I typed. Remember EA has by minute pricing where it is required. I just corrected my post as you were responding.
In how many states does EA charge per minute? I've never encountered an EA charger that charges by the minute. The screenshots you shared show a very cheap rate (even $0.24/minute is super cheap if you're pulling anywhere close to 100 kW). If anything, this just shows how off-balance EA's existing per-minute rates are. I'd be surprised if these per-minute rates aren't introductory rates; I'd fully expect them to triple within the next year ($0.75 or more per minute for members), especially if the units are able to provide a reliable charge of 100+ kW. No way that EA can make any money without charging that much.

In any case, the Tesla rate increase shouldn't be a shock or cause for concern. It also doesn't reflect any major inflationary pressures. I think it just comes down to the providers of charging stations needing to start making this a viable business model.
 

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This is very confusing. After watching the video, and reading a couple of articles, I'm still not 100% on this.

But, I'm pretty sure the problem is per minute charging, which is dumb, and always has been dumb.

If I'm correct, and it's per minute, then the stratification actually levels out the rates. Charging 4x as fast on a per minute charge does seem like it should warrant a premium. Those Kia's and Hyundai's, with the fast charging, will still pull the same juice, and do it faster, and per minute, they'd pay a lot less.

The 4X number sounds like click-bait to me.

Overall, it actually seems like it might be a fair solution, absent more detail.
 

BadgerGreg

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This is very confusing. After watching the video, and reading a couple of articles, I'm still not 100% on this.

But, I'm pretty sure the problem is per minute charging, which is dumb, and always has been dumb.

If I'm correct, and it's per minute, then the stratification actually levels out the rates. Charging 4x as fast on a per minute charge does seem like it should warrant a premium. Those Kia's and Hyundai's, with the fast charging, will still pull the same juice, and do it faster, and per minute, they'd pay a lot less.

The 4X number sounds like click-bait to me.

Overall, it actually seems like it might be a fair solution, absent more detail.
Exactly - we're making too big a deal about this. The higher rates (per minute) aren't really that high when you consider the $/kWh one will pay when charging.
 

ChasingCoral

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In how many states does EA charge per minute? I've never encountered an EA charger that charges by the minute. The screenshots you shared show a very cheap rate (even $0.24/minute is super cheap if you're pulling anywhere close to 100 kW). If anything, this just shows how off-balance EA's existing per-minute rates are. I'd be surprised if these per-minute rates aren't introductory rates; I'd fully expect them to triple within the next year ($0.75 or more per minute for members), especially if the units are able to provide a reliable charge of 100+ kW. No way that EA can make any money without charging that much.

In any case, the Tesla rate increase shouldn't be a shock or cause for concern. It also doesn't reflect any major inflationary pressures. I think it just comes down to the providers of charging stations needing to start making this a viable business model.
Up until 2020 EA charged by the minute everywhere. Last year they switched to kWh pricing in 23 states and DC. I’m not sure if they have been able to make the switch in more states since then.
 

BadgerGreg

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Up until 2020 EA charged by the minute everywhere. Last year they switched to kWh pricing in 23 states and DC. I’m not sure if they have been able to make the switch in more states since then.
I would love to pay per minute at the rates EA is currently charging. I pay $0.31 per kWh as a member, which equates to about $0.57 - $0.62 per minute, assuming I'm charging at ~110-120 kW, which is usually about where I'm at when plugged into an EA charger.

I guess this shows that the per-minute pricing model is overdue for a significant price hike. Tesla is leading the way...the others are soon to follow.
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