Tesla QUADRUPLED Supercharger Prices Overnight

[Neilthepilot]

I would recommend that @malthusunc read the manual on the Jeep (likely available online before delivery) and follow those instructions.

First, most auto manufacturers recommend no additives of any type go in the vehicle. If an additive is needed, then the manufacturer will specifically call it out.

Second, the auto makers address this with the design of the vehicle. Our 2018 Fusion Energi was designed to monitor how often the gas engine was used, and would run the gas engine to prevent fuel problems. Also, the fuel system was pressurized to prevent air entering, and you had to hold a button for the system to depressurize and the fuel door to open.

Fuel Freshness Mode (If Equipped)
This helps keep the fuel system functional and the fuel fresh. If you mainly use your vehicle in electric power mode without refueling, the gasoline in the fuel tank may become stale due to
aging. Stale gasoline can damage the engine and fuel system. Your vehicle automatically switches to fuel freshness mode if you do not refuel your vehicle with fresh fuel within an 18-month period. Fuel freshness mode protects your vehicle from potential engine and fuel
system damage caused by using stale fuel. Note: If you do not add new fuel during an
18-month period, fuel freshness mode will use fuel until approximately 1.2 gal (4.5 L)
of fuel remains in the fuel tank.

During fuel freshness mode:
• The information display will indicate fuel freshness mode is active.
• The vehicle will only run in hybrid mode. EV Now mode will not be available.
• Most of the plug-in power will be stored until fuel freshness mode is completed.
Note: EV Now mode resumes when less than 1.2 gal (4.5 L) of fuel remains in the fuel tank.
Note: When the fuel level is less than one-quarter full, refueling your vehicle will end fuel freshness mode.
Note: We recommend you use a fuel stabilizer if you use less than a full tank of fuel during an 18-month period.

Read the two highlighted sentences.

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[RickMachE]

Read the two highlighted sentences.

I wrote them. It doesn't say "follow the instructions that someone typed in on an internet forum".

 

[malthusunc]

Read the two highlighted sentences.

Thanks for the information. We actually rented one for a weekend using Turo since we couldn't find one on a dealer's lot (kind of like the Mach-E). I didn't say she wouldn't be using any gas - it was definitely fun to punch it at the lights or getting on the on-ramps where you get the ICE and the EV motor working together. Just that she will be able to maximize the Hybrid portion (mostly electric) because her trips aren't typically that long (i.e., over 25 miles). But this makes me feel better where it says, "if you don't use a tank of gas in 18 months." I don't think that will be a concern. LOL.

 

[RickMachE]

Thanks for the information. We actually rented one for a weekend using Turo since we couldn't find one on a dealer's lot (kind of like the Mach-E). I didn't say she wouldn't be using any gas - it was definitely fun to punch it at the lights or getting on the on-ramps where you get the ICE and the EV motor working together. Just that she will be able to maximize the Hybrid portion (mostly electric) because her trips aren't typically that long (i.e., over 25 miles). But this makes me feel better where it says, "if you don't use a tank of gas in 18 months." I don't think that will be a concern. LOL.

Keep in mind that's from my 2018 Fusion Energi manual, not the Jeep manual.

 

[Zapata]

But really how often are average EV owners using DC Fast charge. Should be 10% of the time (guessing). DC fast charging will only skyrocket in price if we allow unregulated monopolies.

 

[Logal727]

people who bought these and don’t even know how they work definitely charge DC only. Met a woman with a Taycan who exclusively charged it on DC at EA station.

 

[Eraser]

I'm not really surprised by any of this. There is too much money on the table for these types of things not to go on. Here in Cali I think the same will happen not only with charging networks, but with electric companies as well.

A few years back electric companies started moving people to a time of day usage model. Basically they jack up the rates when people actually need/want to use power like a hot summer day, and give you cheaper rates during off peak times that you probably wouldn't be using much power anyways (besides charging your car). This is sold to people under the guise of saving the consumer money, and being green. When in reality it is all about minimizing the power they are buying out of state during peak usage time.

Eventually once the state bans the sale all new non-electric cars, appliances, and tools then they will REALLY put to screws to people. Legislation is already underway to do just that (at least in Cali). As that shift happens electricity prices (regardless of the source) will significantly increase. Granted most of these policies won't happen for 10+ years and things might change (but I doubt it). I for one am glad I jumped on the EV gravy train while the getting is good, these gas prices are insane ($5+ per gallon regular).

 

[TheVirtualTim]

And if Electrify America doesn’t raise their prices Tesla cars will be bottlenecked right along side of us.

But apparently not ... I had not realized there is no adapter for Tesla's to use a CCS1 charger ... only CHAdeMO. According to the video, Tesla no longer produces or sells that adapter. (I can sort of understand why ... it is basically a dead standard now that the last of the companies that used it have converted over to CCS1 and I think Electrify America said they no longer plan to install a CHAdeMO connector when building out new stations.)

 

[TheVirtualTim]

BTW, my understanding of "per minute" charging rates at Electrify America is that the rate you are charged per minute is based on what your car is CAPABLE of accepting ... not what you actually get.

In the video, Brandon made it sounds as if Tesla will vary the rate based on the charging rate at that time ... so a single charge-session would have multiple rates. That somewhat surprised. He even did fractional minutes (and that REALLY surprised me).

For Electrify America, their per-minute rates are typically:

For non Pass+ users:
16¢/minute for cars that can charge at 0-90 kW rate​

31¢/minute for cars that can charge at 90-350 kW rate​

​

For Pass+ users ($4/monthly membership fee):​

12¢/minute for 0-90 kW rate​

24¢/minute for 90-350 kW rate​

Since the Mach-E can charge at 150kW (approximately) then you would ALWAYS pay the 90-350 kW rate ... regardless of how fast you are charging.

As you approach 80% and the charge rate slows ... and ultimately drops to the 12 kW rate... you would probably want to discontinue charging because you'd be paying (for non-Pass+ members) 31¢/min to charge at a 12 kW rate. That's 1/10th of a kiloWatt per minute. So you are basically paying $3.10/kWh if you continue to charge.

 

[Zapata]

Eventually once the state bans the sale all new non-electric cars, appliances, and tools then they will REALLY put to screws to people. Legislation is already underway to do just that (at least in Cali). As that shift happens electricity prices (regardless of the source) will significantly increase. Granted most of these policies won't happen for 10+ years and things might change (but I doubt it). I for one am glad I jumped on the EV gravy train while the getting is good, these gas prices are insane ($5+ per gallon regular).

No way is electricity for cars getting more expensive in the future. You can charge a car with Photovoltaics and that tech along with batteries are getting cheap. Utilities can't monopolize the grid anymore.

 

[SWO]

Those don't necessarily apply to all PHEVs. My wife's RAV4 Prime isn't as bad as your BMW in some regards.

1. I see the same EV efficiency in the RAV4 Prime that I do in the MME. It's EPA rated for 42 miles of EV range, but we regularly get 50+.
2. The fuel efficiency on gas is great. It's rated for 40mpg in the city, but we get around 43mpg around town.
3. If you want the full 302 horsepower, you do need to fire up the ICE. But there's plenty of pulling power provided by the electric motors on each axle without it, so we never do.
4. The RAV4 Prime also does not support DCFC (like most PHEVs). But I never really understood the purpose of DCFC on a PHEV. DCFC is rarely free, and the cost is not usually less than gas. The gas tank is a PHEV's version of fast charging.

Bingo. We have a 2021 Escape PHEV and everything you state is true for it as well, except it doesn't have AWD (but averages 44-48mpg in hybrid mode). I haven’t run the numbers yet, but our Escape might be cheaper to fuel than the MachE.

 

[RickMachE]

A few years back electric companies started moving people to a time of day usage model. Basically they jack up the rates when people actually need/want to use power like a hot summer day, and give you cheaper rates during off peak times that you probably wouldn't be using much power anyways (besides charging your car). This is sold to people under the guise of saving the consumer money, and being green. When in reality it is all about minimizing the power they are buying out of state during peak usage time.

Eventually once the state bans the sale all new non-electric cars, appliances, and tools then they will REALLY put to screws to people. Legislation is already underway to do just that (at least in Cali). As that shift happens electricity prices (regardless of the source) will significantly increase. Granted most of these policies won't happen for 10+ years and things might change (but I doubt it). I for one am glad I jumped on the EV gravy train while the getting is good, these gas prices are insane ($5+ per gallon regular).

BTW, my understanding of "per minute" charging rates at Electrify America is that the rate you are charged per minute is based on what your car is CAPABLE of accepting ... not what you actually get.

In the video, Brandon made it sounds as if Tesla will vary the rate based on the charging rate at that time ... so a single charge-session would have multiple rates. That somewhat surprised. He even did fractional minutes (and that REALLY surprised me).

For Electrify America, their per-minute rates are typically:

For non Pass+ users:​

16¢/minute for cars that can charge at 0-90 kW rate​

31¢/minute for cars that can charge at 90-350 kW rate​

​

For Pass+ users ($4/monthly membership fee):​

12¢/minute for 0-90 kW rate​

24¢/minute for 90-350 kW rate​

Since the Mach-E can charge at 150kW (approximately) then you would ALWAYS pay the 90-350 kW rate ... regardless of how fast you are charging.

As you approach 80% and the charge rate slows ... and ultimately drops to the 12 kW rate... you would probably want to discontinue charging because you'd be paying (for non-Pass+ members) 31¢/min to charge at a 12 kW rate. That's 1/10th of a kiloWatt per minute. So you are basically paying $3.10/kWh if you continue to charge.

This is true in states that are per minute, vs. per kWh, yes.

 

[Eraser]

No way is electricity for cars getting more expensive in the future. You can charge a car with Photovoltaics and that tech along with batteries are getting cheap. Utilities can't monopolize the grid anymore.

What should be the case and the reality of things are very different. Regardless, electricity will continue to get more expensive factoring in inflation alone. Utility companies can justifying price hikes in a multitude of ways just like any company. If "regulators" are favorable to the utilities they can do what they want with little resistance. PG&E (Pacific Gas and Electric) has gotten away with far worse over they years, so forgive me if I don't share your optimism (but I wish I did).

 

[deadduck]

I'm not really surprised by any of this. There is too much money on the table for these types of things not to go on. Here in Cali I think the same will happen not only with charging networks, but with electric companies as well.

A few years back electric companies started moving people to a time of day usage model. Basically they jack up the rates when people actually need/want to use power like a hot summer day, and give you cheaper rates during off peak times that you probably wouldn't be using much power anyways (besides charging your car).

One hand gives, one hand takes away.

Been reading on time of use for charging and it does get your EV cheaper rates but everything else kind of doubles. And, it's hard to get your actual usage from P.G.E. broken down by hour. At least it was on the quick pass I took at it where it seemed kind of obfuscated.

 

[Zapata]

What should be the case and the reality of things are very different. Regardless, electricity will continue to get more expensive factoring in inflation alone. Utility companies can justifying price hikes in a multitude of ways just like any company. If "regulators" are favorable to the utilities they can do what they want with little resistance. PG&E (Pacific Gas and Electric) has gotten away with far worse over they years, so forgive me if I don't share your optimism (but I wish I did).

There is a ceiling for electricity costs. If prices get too high private citizens and communities can just invest in their own energy production. It's not like we live in the 70's anymore. The only reason I don't invest in a solar system is because my power is $0.08 to $0.10 per kwh.

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