Tesla refuses $6.4M funding from California due to requirement of accepting payment via credit card...

Yerfdog56

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Because Tesla owner have an account (app) where they can look up how much they're charge and how much electricity they bought).

your point was that you didn't want an app. So the only way to get that info is a screen, and a paper receipt to document what you bought.
You may already know this but for others that don't, the amount a SpC charged both in juice and dollars is on the cars screen. You don't need the app to see that.
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Yerfdog56

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I went to a POS automatic carwash / self serve dog wash yesterday. Half the time something at this carwash is broken, or the dryer doesn’t work. It’s $5 though and close to my house, so it’s good in a pinch to get the salt off. You know what always works though? The tap-to-pay credit card reader. It has never failed to take my money, even if the carwash itself leaves something to be desired.

This isnt a problem. Tesla could install ONE terminal at each supercharger location that is basically an embedded computer that runs their app with card reader. You select the stall to activate. Boom, done. If Joe Schmo’s car wash and dog wash can pull it off reliably, so can Tesla and every DCFC out there.
There's a photo recently showing a small kiosk at a SpC that I assumed was the central point of payment. It may have been a prototype method needed for compliance with the NEVI funds. If it was so simple though, why haven't the public DCFC's used this method.
 

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You may already know this but for others that don't, the amount a SpC charged both in juice and dollars is on the cars screen. You don't need the app to see that.
I haven't heard of SpC. But does that work with every EV, or just certain EV? Also if you don't have an account with SpC, how do you get a receipt?

I really believe they need a universal standard for plug and charge as well as connectors. EVs are still in it's infancy. Wouldn't be hard to mandate a standard now vs 20 years from now.
 

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I went to a POS automatic carwash / self serve dog wash yesterday. Half the time something at this carwash is broken, or the dryer doesn’t work. It’s $5 though and close to my house, so it’s good in a pinch to get the salt off. You know what always works though? The tap-to-pay credit card reader. It has never failed to take my money, even if the carwash itself leaves something to be desired.

This isnt a problem. Tesla could install ONE terminal at each supercharger location that is basically an embedded computer that runs their app with card reader. You select the stall to activate. Boom, done. If Joe Schmo’s car wash and dog wash can pull it off reliably, so can Tesla and every DCFC out there.
That's one more point of failure, as well as needing more resources. They would have to have some one check on it and maintain it if and when it goes down. Not saying it couldn't be done.

So far, the way they operate their superchargers have been pretty seamless and reliable. people are generally really happy with them. We'll see how it goes in the next few months as more non Tesla Owners begin to use them.

I'm not against the card readers, and I'm sure if Tesla feels that it's profitable for them to do so, they would add them. Maybe it's because I already have the Tesla App, so it wouldn't affect me, but so far, it's been working well.
 

dbsb3233

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I'm not against the card readers, and I'm sure if Tesla feels that it's profitable for them to do so, they would add them. Maybe it's because I already have the Tesla App, so it wouldn't affect me, but so far, it's been working well.
Same here. Sure, as the consumer I'd love to have the card reader as an extra option too, just in case. BUT... 100x more important is more CCS DCFC coverage existing, and ASAP. If it's an obstacle to getting more Magic Docks rolling out sooner, then I'd say drop the CC requirement. It's a matter of dueling priorities to me. The CC option is very minor relative to more CCS DCFC existing, IMO. So I'll side with the latter priority. At least for now. If they want to say "You have to come back within 3 years and add a CC kiosk", then fine. They can carve out a separate grant per station for that.
 


dbsb3233

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It's also possible Tesla is using this public announcement as a bargaining tool to try and get CA to waive the CC requirement. Especially now that Magic Dock exists and appears to be working pretty well. Could be leverage for them to pressure the state. "We have Magic Dock ready to roll out to your thousands of CCS constituents, all you have to do is waive the credit card reader requirement".
 

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It's also possible Tesla is using this public announcement as a bargaining tool to try and get CA to waive the CC requirement. Especially now that Magic Dock exists and appears to be working pretty well. Could be leverage for them to pressure the state. "We have Magic Dock ready to roll out to your thousands of CCS constituents, all you have to do is waive the credit card reader requirement".
Good luck with that in California. The State where Gov't knows what's best for you. Where Granger can't sell Ford warranty to Californian at lower cost in order to protect Californians from cheaper rates and getting taken advantage of.
 

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Well, if Phil Ting gets his way, we won’t have paper receipts in CA except in face to face transactions where the purchaser explicitly asks for one. This would do away with the printer on any kiosk. 🤷‍♂️🐩
 

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There's a photo recently showing a small kiosk at a SpC that I assumed was the central point of payment. It may have been a prototype method needed for compliance with the NEVI funds. If it was so simple though, why haven't the public DCFC's used this method.
My guess is because many of these networks (ie chargepoint) started out as level 2 chargers. The low transaction costs (many times less than $1.00) made processing fees a problem, so they wanted you to buy $10 at a time. With the increasing costs of DCFC, the average transaction cost is approaching a fast food joint or even gas station.
 

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I really don't blame Tesla, and in a way give them credit for turning down the funding as it would require modifying their charging stall to incorporate a payment system (such as a touch screen). Tesla uses the app to reduce a point of hardware failure on the chargers themselves. Perhaps companies like EA should take notice.
POS credit card payment systems are pretty settled, robust systems. Imagine needing an app to pay for groceries from Kroger, and a different app to pay for groceries from Aldi. Or a separate app for each chain of gas stations. It’s really nothing more than a way to turn Your customers into a product you can monetize by collecting data on their comings and goings.
 

JoeDimwit

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Which is worse, requiring an app to initiate and pay for a charge or pulling up and seeing touch screen on the charger showing a Windows OS error message?

I get it in regards to yet another app, but we're in that awkward transition phase of EV's. It's no different than the transition phase away from cable TV providers versus content creators (Netflix, ABC, NBC, Paramount, Hulu, HBO, etc) going direct-to-consumer with yet another app/subscription service.

Personally, if having a half dozen apps on my phone to charge my car at various locations means better reliability, I'm all for it. At least until someone figures out how to wrap all of this together in a universal plug and charge, I'm afraid this is what we're going to have to deal with.
Why not swipe your debit/credit card to initiate a charging session?
 

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Exactly this for the skimmer worries. Using a card anywhere is starting to feel archaic... Forgetting your phone nowadays is comparable to forgetting your wallet 15 years ago.




🤷‍♂️ a simple NFC tap reader would fix the problem, but I'm sure that's not allowed in some way or another. Whatever it is, I don't want to swipe a card.
Because cellular data is unhackable?
 

dbsb3233

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POS credit card payment systems are pretty settled, robust systems. Imagine needing an app to pay for groceries from Kroger, and a different app to pay for groceries from Aldi. Or a separate app for each chain of gas stations. It’s really nothing more than a way to turn Your customers into a product you can monetize by collecting data on their comings and goings.
Some retailers are shifting more toward app payment too. When we shop at Sam's Club, we use the app to scan our items, pay with the card on file, and skip the checkout line.
 

Ride_the_lightning

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Some retailers are shifting more toward app payment too. When we shop at Sam's Club, we use the app to scan our items, pay with the card on file, and skip the checkout line.
Sam’s is literally a private wholesale club. Always has been. That’s why it has always required a membership and ID card.
 

dbsb3233

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