Tesla refuses $6.4M funding from California due to requirement of accepting payment via credit card...

[EVandSolar]

Prior to the take over, Twitter never made a profit, was bleeding cash to the tune of Billions per year. They had no path forward even with all their ad revenue. Elon came in cleaned house and put them on a path to hopefully make a profit next quarter.

You may not agree with his politics or methods, but the man gets results. Seem like other billionaires have enough faith in him to invest that kind of money and continue to invest in his other ventures.

Sorry Ghost Ryder, there's no way you can be right. Some guy on the internet hates Elon Musk so you are obviously wrong.

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[EVandSolar]

Speak for yourself. I don’t “hate” Tesla. First, I personally find the vehicles to be ugly (subjective opinion). Second, I find the UI on their most popular vehicles to be deliberately driver hostile (one should not have to take one’s attention away from the task of driving to adjust HVAC vents - we won’t even get into primary driver UI issues). Third, I find their paint quality to be atrocious, based on personal observation. Fourth, I’ve read too many troubling reports of manufacturing issues (such as using blocks of wood from … somewhere … as structural supports). Fifth, a local company I trust does delivery prep for the local Tesla showroom and they’ve told me horror stories about the vehicles they’re given to prep (missing wheel nuts, random “components” in the trunk/rear storage areas, sections of the body work not painted, etc).

As for Elon personally, I have no respect for a “business leader” who violates local health and safety guidance and tells his employees they must do so as well, if they want to keep their jobs. I’m referring to his decision to keep his manufacturing facilities open during a period when local health officials ordered that businesses be closed to in-person work. He may be (probably is) smarter than me, but he’s not a virologist or infectious diseases expert. I happen to (barely), know some leading virologists and infectious disease experts, including researchers who were studying the spike protein and involved in the development of the mRNA vaccines (the technology for which was developed at the academic research medical center where I work). Based on what I’ve been told by real experts, that guidance was based on our best understanding at the time and our desire to reduce the load on the health care system. Musk was foolish and reckless. He endangered lives and likely contributed to the increased load on the California health system by his stupid actions.
So no, this has nothing to do with “I’d rather push a Ford than drive a Chevy” bumper sticker nonsense (at least not for me).

Since you value a virtuous leader so much, how can you be a Ford fan when the founder of the company is Henry Ford? Just saying......you hate Tesla and Elon Musk...Henry Ford...all good. Really?

https://www.history.com/news/henry-ford-antisemitism-worker-treatment

Why can't we just celebrate and enjoy the cars we own without all the constant hateful bashing of other brands/brand owners. It's really tiresome.

To get back on topic(which I can do without calling anyone foul names and stereotyping everyone who owns a different brand of car), perhaps as we move forward, there can simply be direct communication between charger and car, allowing payment via a CC that is stored in the cars "account", with charging info displayed on the cars screen.

Less complicated chargers, more reliable etc. Instead of dumbing down the best design in existence, let's figure out a way to move towards allowing the best design to work for everyone.

 

[timbop]

Since you value a virtuous leader so much, how can you be a Ford fan when the founder of the company is Henry Ford? Just saying......you hate Tesla and Elon Musk...Henry Ford...all good. Really?

https://www.history.com/news/henry-ford-antisemitism-worker-treatment

Why can't we just celebrate and enjoy the cars we own without all the constant hateful bashing of other brands/brand owners. It's really tiresome.

To get back on topic(which I can do without calling anyone foul names and stereotyping everyone who owns a different brand of car), perhaps as we move forward, there can simply be direct communication between charger and car, allowing payment via a CC that is stored in the cars "account", with charging info displayed on the cars screen.

Less complicated chargers, more reliable etc. Instead of dumbing down the best design in existence, let's figure out a way to move towards allowing the best design to work for everyone.

You're assuming a false dichotomy. The requirement isn't for ONLY credit cards; merely that the least common denominator of credit cards MUST be available. All manner of plug-n-charge protocols and apps may ALSO be supported.

 

[brancky3]

Because cellular data is unhackable?

Tap to pay or pay via app are miles ahead of swiping a card in both speed and security. It’s not even close. There’s no reason why anybody should be swiping or inserting a card at this point.

 

[dbsb3233]

The other factor I haven't seen mentioned yet is the way that Magic Dock works. It requires the app to tell the charger it's a CCS charge first, where it locks the handle onto the adapter and releases the adapter. To put a credit card reader on the charger itself (with no app), it would also take some sort of user interface (touchscreen or buttons) to select CCS vs Tesla. And probably the ability to end the session, display the amount charged, etc. Basically a whole new charger design.

Maybe that could be done with a single kiosk at the station that talks to each charger, but that could be messy. What if you want to end your session on the kiosk while another newbie is on it trying to figure out how to get his session started? Does every EV have a button on it to end charging from the car side? And what if that kiosk is broken or locked up? Do they have to install 2 for backup? Or one for each charger?

It gets tricky fast. I can see why they just said the hell with it, at least in the CA funding case. Still not sure about the NEVI funding situation, and whether Magic Dock retrofits qualify for that, or only brand new charger installations.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Some retailers are shifting more toward app payment too. When we shop at Sam's Club, we use the app to scan our items, pay with the card on file, and skip the checkout line.

Costco does the same thing. As an added bonus, you never lose your receipt. Much more convenient.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

You're assuming a false dichotomy. The requirement isn't for ONLY credit cards; merely that the least common denominator of credit cards MUST be available. All manner of plug-n-charge protocols and apps may ALSO be supported.

Tesla has their supercharger up and running for 10 years now without a credit card reader. Seems to work really well and seamless. I don't hear any complaints about people not being able to charge. How about we make that the standard and other manufacturer adopt it instead of reinventing the wheel. If something works, use it. Seems simple enough.

 

[dbsb3233]

Tesla has their supercharger up and running for 10 years now without a credit card reader. Seems to work really well and seamless. I don't hear any complaints about people not being able to charge. How about we make that the standard and other manufacturer adopt it instead of reinventing the wheel. If something works, use it. Seems simple enough.

Same way with ChargePoints. I don't think I've ever seen one with a credit card reader. Most of the CP125's I've used are state-sponsored installs too (particularly in CO & UT). I guess those would be denied funding in CA (and maybe from NEVI) too?

While I get the desire by customers to have a CC option and not want to install another app, I just find that a minor annoyance personally. And I sure hope such a requirement doesn't inhibit Magic Dock and CP expansions. I'll take a DCFC w/o credit card reader over no charger at all any day of the week.

I bet we'll see more universal apps over time as well. And more universal Plug&Charge. But like all of this, it'll take time.

 

[EVandSolar]

Tesla has their supercharger up and running for 10 years now without a credit card reader. Seems to work really well and seamless. I don't hear any complaints about people not being able to charge. How about we make that the standard and other manufacturer adopt it instead of reinventing the wheel. If something works, use it. Seems simple enough.

This mirrors my thoughts on the matter. Our first EV was a Kia Niro. We like it and it's been a great car. But it's hard to understand how much better and easier it is to charge a Tesla until you do so. No app. No screen to muddle through. No buttons to push. Just grab the cable, and plug it into your car. Period. We are still VERY early in the EV adoption phase...maybe 5%? It's the perfect time to get everyone on the same page....if Tesla has been able to have this flawless method of charging in place for over ten years now, surely the rest of the world can figure it out.

Imagine...pull up to a charger. Plug your car in. That's it.

Manufacturers and DCFC companies just need to figure out how to handle a universal hand shake. Just need an active payment method attached to your vehicle.

 

[dbsb3233]

This mirrors my thoughts on the matter. Our first EV was a Kia Niro. We like it and it's been a great car. But it's hard to understand how much better and easier it is to charge a Tesla until you do so. No app. No screen to muddle through. No buttons to push. Just grab the cable, and plug it into your car. Period. We are still VERY early in the EV adoption phase...maybe 5%? It's the perfect time to get everyone on the same page....if Tesla has been able to have this flawless method of charging in place for over ten years now, surely the rest of the world can figure it out.

Imagine...pull up to a charger. Plug your car in. That's it.

Manufacturers and DCFC companies just need to figure out how to handle a universal hand shake. Just need an active payment method attached to your vehicle.

That's what I love about Plug&Charge at EA in our Mach-E too. So simple.

To be fair, Tesla only has it working with one network too (their own). They all need to work on universality to get all EVs working on all networks.

 

[Jimrpa]

Since you value a virtuous leader so much, how can you be a Ford fan when the founder of the company is Henry Ford? Just saying......you hate Tesla and Elon Musk...Henry Ford...all good. Really?

https://www.history.com/news/henry-ford-antisemitism-worker-treatment

Why can't we just celebrate and enjoy the cars we own without all the constant hateful bashing of other brands/brand owners. It's really tiresome.

To get back on topic(which I can do without calling anyone foul names and stereotyping everyone who owns a different brand of car), perhaps as we move forward, there can simply be direct communication between charger and car, allowing payment via a CC that is stored in the cars "account", with charging info displayed on the cars screen.

Less complicated chargers, more reliable etc. Instead of dumbing down the best design in existence, let's figure out a way to move towards allowing the best design to work for everyone.

I don’t want to go down this road. Yes, Henry ford had some abhorrent views. He’s also not running ford motor company. Here’s an analogy - I like Germany and have German friends. Yeah, Germany has dark moments in their past. That’s not today’s Germany.

 

[Jimrpa]

Tesla has their supercharger up and running for 10 years now without a credit card reader. Seems to work really well and seamless. I don't hear any complaints about people not being able to charge. How about we make that the standard and other manufacturer adopt it instead of reinventing the wheel. If something works, use it. Seems simple enough.

Of course not. They were designed to work with Tesla vehicles as a closed ecosystem. I think that’s great that they work flawlessly with teslas. I’ve always been generic in my complaint - all “open” chargers should have a credit card reader. I’ve told my story about the stupid Baltimore charger many times.

 

[Jimrpa]

Because Tesla owner have an account (app) where they can look up how much they're charge and how much electricity they bought).

your point was that you didn't want an app. So the only way to get that info is a screen, and a paper receipt to document what you bought.

No. I don’t need the paper receipt. For example, I get lunch at Panera and use the kiosks. I never get a paper receipt.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Of course not. They were designed to work with Tesla vehicles as a closed ecosystem. I think that’s great that they work flawlessly with teslas. I’ve always been generic in my complaint - all “open” chargers should have a credit card reader. I’ve told my story about the stupid Baltimore charger many times.

Yes, and the EV landscape is new enough that all EV manufacturers should be mandated to accept one protocol. And since Tesla's system seems to be working well and they have the most stations, I say adopt their protocol. Why re-invent the wheel.

 

[leehinde]

Yes, and the EV landscape is new enough that all EV manufacturers should be mandated to accept one protocol. And since Tesla's system seems to be working well and they have the most stations, I say adopt their protocol. Why re-invent the wheel.

You do know that "their protocol" in Europe is CCS. And they only opened their proprietary protocol in the past few months for use by others.

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