Tesla- This Investigation Should Be Interesting

All Hat No Cattle

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The U.S. Is Formally Investigating Tesla Over Its Autopilot System



August 16, 202111:00 AM ET

The Associated Press
Full article below.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/16/1028...investigating-tesla-over-its-autopilot-system

DETROIT — The U.S. government has opened a formal investigation into Tesla's Autopilot partially automated driving system after a series of collisions with parked emergency vehicles.


The investigation covers 765,000 vehicles, almost everything that Tesla has sold in the U.S. since the start of the 2014 model year. Of the crashes identified by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration as part of the probe, 17 people were injured and one was killed.


NHTSA says it has identified 11 crashes since 2018 in which Teslas on Autopilot or Traffic Aware Cruise Control have hit vehicles at scenes where first responders have used flashing lights, flares, an illuminated arrow board or cones warning of hazards. The agency announced the action Monday in a posting on its website.
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Carsinmyblood

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Time to pull the plug on this experiment. Turn on the adaptive cruise control if you need to and look out the window while you drive your car.

Imperfect humans programming imperfect self-driving systems scares me more than any sober human, and some who DUI.
 

JamieGeek

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All Hat No Cattle

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Actually, the post above is old news.

This new thing is a full-blown investigation, of essentially every Tesla made, (765,000) because, for some reason, they did not do a thorough investigation earlier.

It is important enough to merit the front page (A1) of the Wall Street Journal today, and also the back page, (B12).

Page B12 says,

Tesla’s Ascent Can’t Remain on Autopilot

Meanwhile, incumbent auto makers have embraced electric cars after decades of indifference, which is reason to worry that growth prospects for Tesla aren’t as rosy as Wall Street seems to think. Indeed, customers in Western Europe, a highly friendly market for electric cars, registered roughly 98,000 Teslas in 2020, down about 11% from 2019, while overall registrations of all-electric vehicles more than doubled, according to Schmidt Automotive Research. Tesla’s share of the market fell to around 13% in 2020 from about 31% a year earlier.


That should give sensible investors reason to pump the brakes, even if Monday’s selloff quickly loses its charge.
FWIW, Tesla went down 4% yesterday, and is down 4% this morning.
 

Kabish

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Tesla was stupid calling it Auto Pilot. Its a driver aid, its really no different than what the Ford can do. They do have their Full Self Drive in beta and it seems to be pretty darn good, but its still no where close to being full "self driving".

I believe a lot of the data is also flawed. Someone gets in a crash, "OH IT WAS TESLA'S FAULT!", its NEVER the fault of the person driving.. Was watching a video were valet was brining down a guys Tesla, he drove it through the 2nd story wall.... He claimed the car took control and did it.. Owner went through all the BS and got the data from the black box of the car, valet gave the car 100% throttle, 0-Wall in 2 seconds lol Company is still refusing to pay for the damages.

If I'm not mistaken Tesla just made an announcement that they are working on adding police lights/sirens and the such to their newest FSD beta a few months ago. So emergency lights and such was not fully implemented to begin with.

This morning, while on the freeway, the car just had it in its mind that it WANTED to drive on the line. I got tired of fighting it so I let it do its thing. It immediately yelled at me, and then braked because there was a car in the other lane up a ways lol It was a straight part of the freeway too, no idea why it had the desire to ride the line. I have noticed that sometimes it wants to drive the line, then after you let it do it, it will center in the lane.

I personally think FSD is an amazing feature when its perfected. I give Tesla about 3 years and they will have FSD nailed down, they are already really close. The main issue is for the system to be perfect, or always keep it as a driver aid. I think the MME does "okay" but is by no means at Tesla's standard.
 


GoGoGadgetMachE

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Actually, the post above is old news.

This new thing is a full-blown investigation, of essentially every Tesla made, (765,000) because, for some reason, they did not do a thorough investigation earlier.

It is important enough to merit the front page (A1) of the Wall Street Journal today, and also the back page, (B12).

Page B12 says,



FWIW, Tesla went down 4% yesterday, and is down 4% this morning.
As the original linked poster, you are wrong. Go back and look at my post. I linked to the investigation document in literally the first line. It's not "old news.". That was the point.

We don't need two threads on this.
 

mwtechy

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Time to pull the plug on this experiment. Turn on the adaptive cruise control if you need to and look out the window while you drive your car.

Imperfect humans programming imperfect self-driving systems scares me more than any sober human, and some who DUI.
A glorified pattern matching system running in a neural network is not about imperfect humans. It's about overselling something as intelligent IMO. There will always be problems with these systems until humans are taken off the road entirely so there are fewer unexpected patterns in the field of view of the car. That's why Musk and all the pro AI people pretending like autodriving systems are actually what they claim and why they want to get more and more of these things into cars as fast as possible. Hey if every car was autonomous driving a motorcycle would be a lot safer too cause most of those accidents are not due to driver error either, they are due to other drivers not noticing you...which is the problem with glorified pattern matching systems driving for you cause some human on the road will always do something an AI wasn't expecting.
 

Garbone

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Big Government EV day they did not invite Tesla, now investigations gearing up. Me thinks the grifters in DC got the knives out for TSLA.

FSD is a bad idea and may just be a convenient path to get at TSLA.
 

Mirak

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Musk should rebrand Autopilot as Full No Crash With Emergency Vehicles. Problem solved.
 
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All Hat No Cattle

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We don't need two threads on this.
Please forgive me. I'm sorry that I am the first poster on this forum to post a second thread on the same subject.

Even though my thread has more info in it than the original thread. :)

But I am extremely glad that there are posters here that can show me the error of my ways.

Consider me properly chastised :oops:.

I support our Post Police!!!
 

QuRace

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Also in today's New York Times, including an entertaining (as per usual) reader comments section.
 

timbop

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Yes, it is a duplicate thread but it happens. I am going to exacerbate the condition with the following comments :)
Tesla was stupid calling it Auto Pilot. Its a driver aid, its really no different than what the Ford can do. They do have their Full Self Drive in beta and it seems to be pretty darn good, but its still no where close to being full "self driving".
I would argue Tesla has completely lost the mission. The original mission was to get ICE off the road and replace them with electric cars so that a clean electric grid can clean up the largest CO2 producing sector. One strategy to that end was to make their cars "cool" by making them fast and different looking with some gimmicks like the gull wing doors. That strategy worked, but somewhere along the way Musk got enamored with the idea of a fleet of robotaxis. IMO that has completely derailed his original mission: electric taxis driven by humans are just as effective at getting ICE off the street. They've now spent untold billions chasing a white elephant when that R&D money could have been better spent on battery research or ways to properly assemble and paint the damn cars.

I personally think FSD is an amazing feature when its perfected.
It's a solution in search of a problem IMO. Self driving on city streets is not filling a pressing need and is orders of magnitude more complex than solving the problem of L2 driving on highways. The ROI for a virtually unattainable "cool" has come at the expense of so many opportunities lost to scale up production and bring better battery technology to the market. The "perfect" has become the enemy of the "good", and in the meantime the legacy manufacturers are closing the gap on Tesla's squandered lead.
 

Carsinmyblood

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The original mission was to get ICE off the road and replace them with electric cars so that a clean electric grid can clean up the largest CO2 producing sector.
According to the EPA, the largest emitters of greenhouse gas in the US are (2015):


A few of those sectors will much harder to solve than switching Americans to EVs. This shows the enormity of the problem, and, that moving a reluctant nation to EVs isn't much of a solution and may worsen 'Electricity and Heat' to some degree.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Tesla- This Investigation Should Be Interesting global_emissions_sector_2015
 
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EELinneman

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Scrannel

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Tesla has "lost the mission"? Ford and GM were told back in the '60's that they were changing the planet by pumping emissions into the atmosphere. Their reaction was to spend millions to discredit that info in the press etc. (let's not even talk about lead). So, when Ford actually "gets the mission", send up a flare. As far as idiots crashing their cars -- I've had my M3P Tesla for a couple of years and never used my AI once. I prefer to have my hands on the wheel. Both GM and Ford are working on their own autonomous AI. Shall we wait and see how their idiots fare? BTW, way back when regular cruise control came out some drives thought that was "autopilot" and crashed accordingly.
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