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Nak

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OK, I'm interested in the Mach-e, so I'm on this forum. I've never been on a Tesla forum, because I have so many friends that drive Teslas that I never really needed to be on a forum. I really and seriously apologize, because I always thought "Whatever, you are so biased." when I would read here about people complaining about Tesla "Fanboys". I mean, I love Tesla, and all of my friends do too. But everyone I know can discuss Tesla's drawbacks and the advantages of cars like the Mach-e.

So anyways, I now have two Teslas, so I thought I should join a Tesla forum. I kind of expected something like this forum: a few trolls but mostly intelligent folks who liked learning about all EVs, and could actually have an intelligent discussion where all parties learned something from the others. Boy, was I wrong.

OK, most folks on the Tesla forums really are no different than here. But wow, is there a vocal minority. I mean, I love Teslas and I get hammered for not loving them enough! To the point of remaining conveniently ignorant of any possible shortcomings. Do these idiots not realize that accepting any shortcoming virtually guarantees the lack of progress? You can't even talk about things that aren't really short comings, just natural disadvantages. You get slammed for trying to understand the car's limitations. Christ, ALL cars have limitations.

Anyways, I just wanted to apologize to everyone who I quietly thought "Yeah, right." But I would remind you that most Tesla fans really are the same as you. There's just a vocal minority that makes everyone else look bad. I'd encourage all the real folks on here, the ones that actually really do plan on buying a Mach-e, to not tolerate the few trolls you have. The ones that tell Mach-e lovers whatever they want to hear so that they can be accepted. These ass hats are the ones that will eventually ruin this forum and make everyone think you are all just Mach-e "Fan boys." I implore you to keep the flavor and the atmosphere this forum currently has. You have a few trolls, only a few, that will do their damndest to turn this into a fanboy site. You won't like it as much here if they get away with it.

'Nuff said.
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Ken7

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Well said. Nak, I’m curious since you have both the Y & the 3. Is there a difference in ride, rattles and road noise?
 
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Nak

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Well said. Nak, I’m curious since you have both the Y & the 3. Is there a difference in ride, rattles and road noise?
Both are 2020 models so they both benefit from Tesla's experience. I have no rattles in either car. Both cars had some very minor panel alignment issues that the Service Center in Portland fixed within days of my setting the appointment. The 3 was fixed at the service center and required 5 days for a part to arrive. I was provided a Model S as a loaner while I waited. The Y was fixed in my driveway three days after I set the appointment. The build quality is excellent on each.

The Y is definitely quieter than the 3. I drove identical stretches of road back to back in each car with a sound level meter. I tested a variety of road surfaces at various speeds from 25 mph to 70 mph. The Y ranged from 0 to 3 db quieter than the 3; it seemed the average was two db quieter. (I can't swear to that as I can't provide data proving the average.) Additionally, both my wife and I both feel that the Y has a less "annoying" sound, if that makes any sense. It just seems that the sound is not only lower in volume, but less intrusive in nature. That last part is purely subjective.

The Y has Pirelli P-Zero tires while the 3 has Michelin Cross Climate+ tires. The Michelins are consistently rated as quieter than the Pirellis, so my guess is with identical tires the Y would have a larger advantage over the 3.

Personally, I'd rate the Y as superior to the 3 in every measure other than pure performance. My Y gets the advertised 280 mile range, which is less than the 3, but with efficient tires as opposed to performance tires the difference should be minimal. My Performance Y does 0-60 in 3.58 seconds with a one foot roll out as measured by a Dragy. The 3P is over half a second faster. The difference in the seat of the pants is that the Y feels like a rocket ship, the 3 is just plain violent in acceleration. The 3 also has track mode, the Y has an Off Road mode.

For having tires with almost no sidewall, (255/35-21 front and 275/35-21 rear.) the Y doesn't ride bad. Yes, you feel each bump, but the bumps are muted as opposed to sharp. I'll be switching to 19" wheels with 45 aspect ratio tires. I'm doing it primarily to bump the range up to 315 miles. I initially thought I'd want the tires for the better ride, but TBH the ride doesn't bother me. I thought it would. (Again, that's purely subjective.) If I didn't want the range bump, I'd leave the 21s. The handling is insanely fun with those tires.

The heat pump in the Y is a huge deal and I hope Ford includes one in the Mach-e. I've tested both in the garage and the Y's HVAC uses about a third the energy the 3 does. I have no doubt that in cold temperatures the Y will get significantly better range than the 3. If the Mach-e's current range numbers are based on resistive heating, I think a heat pump could easily add 30 miles to the E's range.

The Y is definitely a winner. If Ford can beat the Y, they will have the world by the tail. You know they're going to try; I can't wait to see the result.
 

silverelan

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Fans of any product tend to be intense. Tesla superfans are at another level and basically impossible to have a reasoned discussion with them.

I'm really interested @Nak as to what made you decide on two 2020 Teslas?
 
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Nak

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I'm really interested @Nak as to what made you decide on two 2020 Teslas?
Pretty simple really. For a number of reasons I decided to go full EV and do away with ICE other than my tow and four wheeling vehicle. (No suitable EVs exist yet to replace that.) But that rig only gets about 1000 miles /year. No other EV that makes sense to me--financially and usability wise--exists other than the Tesla. The Mach-e isn't available yet but should fit my needs/desires when it is. Once you own one EV, it is very difficult to continue driving an ICE car. Kind of like driving a steam powered car...

Part of my desire to go EV is reduced maintenance. I've been working on cars since I was 16. I've done full frame up restores, engine swaps, etc, etc. TBH, I'm sick of fixing cars. I like improving them, After 45 years of fixing them I'm tired of it. EVs promise a fraction of the maintenance required for ICE cars.

I like the idea that the sunlight hitting my roof will power my transportation needs, and then some. I'm sorry, but that is just cool. The fact that my transportation carbon footprint will be zero matters to me. (A solar roof is in the works.) It's not the only thing, but it matters to me.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

I really do love Teslas. But it worries me that there really isn't any competition yet. Nothing--and I mean nothing--gets better or even stays good without competition. I think the Mach-e is critical to provide that competition. I'll drive whichever I like better, the Tesla or the Ford. But even if I stick with Tesla I still think the Mach-e is critical to the future of EVs. Hell, I think it's critical to Tesla's future. Competition breeds better products. Products without competition stagnate and fail. Just my opinion.
 


Ken7

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Both are 2020 models so they both benefit from Tesla's experience. I have no rattles in either car. Both cars had some very minor panel alignment issues that the Service Center in Portland fixed within days of my setting the appointment. The 3 was fixed at the service center and required 5 days for a part to arrive. I was provided a Model S as a loaner while I waited. The Y was fixed in my driveway three days after I set the appointment. The build quality is excellent on each.

The Y is definitely quieter than the 3. I drove identical stretches of road back to back in each car with a sound level meter. I tested a variety of road surfaces at various speeds from 25 mph to 70 mph. The Y ranged from 0 to 3 db quieter than the 3; it seemed the average was two db quieter. (I can't swear to that as I can't provide data proving the average.) Additionally, both my wife and I both feel that the Y has a less "annoying" sound, if that makes any sense. It just seems that the sound is not only lower in volume, but less intrusive in nature. That last part is purely subjective.

The Y has Pirelli P-Zero tires while the 3 has Michelin Cross Climate+ tires. The Michelins are consistently rated as quieter than the Pirellis, so my guess is with identical tires the Y would have a larger advantage over the 3.

Personally, I'd rate the Y as superior to the 3 in every measure other than pure performance. My Y gets the advertised 280 mile range, which is less than the 3, but with efficient tires as opposed to performance tires the difference should be minimal. My Performance Y does 0-60 in 3.58 seconds with a one foot roll out as measured by a Dragy. The 3P is over half a second faster. The difference in the seat of the pants is that the Y feels like a rocket ship, the 3 is just plain violent in acceleration. The 3 also has track mode, the Y has an Off Road mode.

For having tires with almost no sidewall, (255/35-21 front and 275/35-21 rear.) the Y doesn't ride bad. Yes, you feel each bump, but the bumps are muted as opposed to sharp. I'll be switching to 19" wheels with 45 aspect ratio tires. I'm doing it primarily to bump the range up to 315 miles. I initially thought I'd want the tires for the better ride, but TBH the ride doesn't bother me. I thought it would. (Again, that's purely subjective.) If I didn't want the range bump, I'd leave the 21s. The handling is insanely fun with those tires.

The heat pump in the Y is a huge deal and I hope Ford includes one in the Mach-e. I've tested both in the garage and the Y's HVAC uses about a third the energy the 3 does. I have no doubt that in cold temperatures the Y will get significantly better range than the 3. If the Mach-e's current range numbers are based on resistive heating, I think a heat pump could easily add 30 miles to the E's range.

The Y is definitely a winner. If Ford can beat the Y, they will have the world by the tail. You know they're going to try; I can't wait to see the result.
Mike, that’s some excellent information. It’s amazing to me that you have two Teslas with no rattles. I’m not sure if you’re very lucky or Tesla’s manufacturing has significantly improved. My late 2017 S, as so many others Model S’ you read about on TMC, has several rattles that are annoying. Sometimes you hear them and sometimes you don’t. I’m usually pretty good at rattle detection & mitigation, but not so with my S.

Nothing ruins my perception of a car’s quality more than rattles. Nothing. My wife can sit next to me and either hear nothing or claim, “It doesn’t bother me like it does you”. Yet her Lexus 300h is tight as a drum regardless of the road surface.

I assume you did some noise level monitoring with a sound meter to come up with the dB deltas. I agree that the Y would likely have been even quieter had they had the same tires as your 3. I assume both have 20s at this point? Since I prefer a smoother ride as opposed to performance or looks, I would opt for 19s..

I’m curious as to your perception of ride quality in the loaner S relative to your Y. Loaners are always a crapshoot in terms of the condition they’re in, but I’d still be interested in your thoughts.

Finally, my only other remaining issue with the 3 or Y (assuming the Mach E fails for some reason, which I hope it doesn’t), is the single center-mounted screen. I’m not sure how I’d react to this on a day to day basis, but I’m not a fan of the approach. Prior to buying my S, Tesla gave me one to drive for a good portion of a weekend. How cool is that? It was also very smart since I was hooked within hours. They’d let me do that with the 3, but I doubt the Y at this point in the production cycle.
 
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Nak

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Mike, that’s some excellent information. It’s amazing to me that you have two Teslas with no rattles. I’m not sure if you’re very lucky or Tesla’s manufacturing has significantly improved. My late 2017 S, as so many others Model S’ you read about on TMC, has several rattles that are annoying. Sometimes you hear them and sometimes you don’t. I’m usually pretty good at rattle detection & mitigation, but not so with my S.

Nothing ruins my perception of a car’s quality more than rattles. Nothing. My wife can sit next to me and either hear nothing or claim, “It doesn’t bother me like it does you”. Yet her Lexus 300h is tight as a drum regardless of the road surface.

I assume you did some noise level monitoring with a sound meter to come up with the dB deltas. I agree that the Y would likely have been even quieter had they had the same tires as your 3. I assume both have 20s at this point? Since I prefer a smoother ride as opposed to performance or looks, I would opt for 19s..

I’m curious as to your perception of ride quality in the loaner S relative to your Y. Loaners are always a crapshoot in terms of the condition they’re in, but I’d still be interested in your thoughts.

Finally, my only other remaining issue with the 3 or Y (assuming the Mach E fails for some reason, which I hope it doesn’t), is the single center-mounted screen. I’m not sure how I’d react to this on a day to day basis, but I’m not a fan of the approach. Prior to buying my S, Tesla gave me one to drive for a good portion of a weekend. How cool is that? It was also very smart since I was hooked within hours. They’d let me do that with the 3, but I doubt the Y at this point in the production cycle.
I know a lot of folks with 2018 Teslas and older are having rattle issues. My buddy with an early 3 certainly has a couple of things that vibrate. None of my friends with 2019+ 3s has any issues with that. I can't tell you if we're lucky or if Tesla got better at that. I'm pretty sure that the Y has benefited from experience as I haven't read of anyone having an issue like that. Hopefully neither car will develop rattles over the years, but only time will tell. Right now both are "tight as a drum" even over the harshest bumps.

I'm sorry, but I don't remember if the S had any rattles. Both my wife and I disliked the S compared to our 3. It felt too"big" to me. (And I drive a K1500 Blazer too!) Not as light to drive as the 3 or the Y, if that makes any sense to you. Neither of us liked having the instrument display behind the wheel. After getting used to the center display on the 3, I found having two displays distracting and annoying. That said, you probably get used to whatever you have. (My '92 Blazer only has a center display as well, it's been that way since I did a major rebuild in 2014. I swapped in a modern drivetrain and the stock instrument panel can't get information from the new computer. So I mounted a Samsung tablet just about like a 3 display. So I beat Tesla to that by years!) I find The controls on the 3 and the Y easier to use than the S, simpler and more intuitive once you get used to them.

Yep, I used a sound level meter. The only stretch where the 3 was as quiet as the Y was a piece of concrete road that seems to eliminate all wheel noise. Everywhere else the Y was about 2db quieter. On bad--noisy--pieces of road they Y was about 3db quieter. The subjective quality of the sound--to our ears--is also better in the Y. The road noise just sounds less harsh, more so than the 2db would account for. That's a purely subjective opinion though. I have 18" aftermarket wheels on the 3 and the 21"s on the Y.
 

Ken7

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Fascinating how you got used to the center display and found the instrument panel distracting. It does show how you get used to what you have.

That's a big difference with 21s on the Y and 18s on the 3. I would think the ride of the Y would be softer with 19s. I seem to recall the frame of the Y has less pieces than does the 3, but I could be wrong. If so that could contribute to a tighter feel. I had also read they were putting in more sound insulation in the Y than was used in the 3.

The S does feel big, but again that's something I got used to. I was interested in your perception of the ride quality of the S relative to the Y. In your limited experience with the S, did it feel smoother, perhaps less harsh, even if less 'precise' in its handling? I'm thinking (hoping?) the ME will be skewed more towards a smoother ride rather than a very firm ride.
 

jhalkias

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Before the announcement of the MME, I was a Tesla admirer, but they are just now being seen more in my part of Ohio. Now that the MME is out, I can't wait to get mine. Those Tesla Trolls are just like the MCA and their non-acceptance of the MME as a Mustang. The more companies that compete in the EV field, the better! Competition will improve vehicles for everyone! Thanks for the insight on your cars.
 

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Part of my desire to go EV is reduced maintenance. I've been working on cars since I was 16. I've done full frame up restores, engine swaps, etc, etc. TBH, I'm sick of fixing cars. I like improving them, After 45 years of fixing them I'm tired of it. EVs promise a fraction of the maintenance required for ICE cars.
So you mentioned two things, maintenance and fixing cars. I'm assuming your putting oil changes in the first category. So I guess my question is, have I just been super lucky on my C-MAX? The only issues that I have had on the car would be the same issues that would be on an electric, like accessories, and so forth. If anything, being a hybrid, my car is more complicated than an ICE and a BEV. Am I living in a bubble, or do cars have engine/powertrain failures happen a lot.
 

silverelan

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Nak, maybe you were lucky? Look at this! I don't think I've ever seen anything like this with a new car.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/lr-awd-delivered-w-suboptimal-quality-return-or-keep.190657/
I would maybe not take delivery of a car built during an escalating pandemic with workers who are distracted with crazy things like the health/safety of themselves and their families. But that's just me.

Maybe March and May builds will not be that good for any US made Tesla.

@Nak, what's the build date on your Y?
 

Ken7

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I think (hope?) his car was an outlier. It’s the worst I’ve seen in a while. He does have the option of returning it and if it was me, I would.
 

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I don't doubt you at all.
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