The new Nissan EV has a CCS charging port. Should Electrify America stop building CHAdeMo charger ports?

Billyk24

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It was recently announced that the new USA based Nissan will feature a CCS charging port. Is it time to drop the CHAdeMO port from new EV charger stations?
 

ChasingCoral

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You don’t want all those Leafs out there to be stranded. They’ll be on the road for quite some time.
 

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You don’t want all those Leafs out there to be stranded. They’ll be on the road for quite some time.
The counterpoint is that EA seems to like deploying clusters of 8 chargers with 1 of them being what is now a dead end. It would make more sense if the 8th had a dual plug on it, rather than wasting 12% of capacity in the hopes that a leaf comes by.
 

ChasingCoral

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The counterpoint is that EA seems to like deploying clusters of 8 chargers with 1 of them being what is now a dead end. It would make more sense if the 8th had a dual plug on it, rather than wasting 12% of capacity in the hopes that a leaf comes by.
I'd say have 2 of the 8 dual but certainly not all of them. Besides, the CHAdeMO chargers don't need more than 50 kW charging.
 

SD_Solar

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I'd say have 2 of the 8 dual but certainly not all of them. Besides, the CHAdeMO chargers don't need more than 50 kW charging.
Actually, the Nissan Leaf SL Plus is capable of accepting a 100 KW charge.
 

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I can't find the source, but I think Electrify America is legally bound by the Volkswagen settlement agreement to include at least one CHAdeMO plug at their stations.
 

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The counterpoint is that EA seems to like deploying clusters of 8 chargers with 1 of them being what is now a dead end. It would make more sense if the 8th had a dual plug on it, rather than wasting 12% of capacity in the hopes that a leaf comes by.
If nobody is building cars with CHAdeMO any longer, why would you waste space / money adding more? All NEW should be CCS to add availability.
 

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If nobody is building cars with CHAdeMO any longer, why would you waste space / money adding more? All NEW should be CCS to add availability.
You don't add any new CHAdeMO-only chargers, you just keep putting in some dual-cord units. Otherwise, you are writing off over 133,000 potential customers (Leafs sold so far).
 

silverelan

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EA will add a single CHAdeMO adapter to a charger to stay in minimal compliance with the settlement agreement that EA is to be brand neutral.

I bet Leaf owners rarely travel due to limited range and Rapidgate issues.
 

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If nobody is building cars with CHAdeMO any longer, why would you waste space / money adding more? All NEW should be CCS to add availability.
You don't add any new CHAdeMO-only chargers, you just keep putting in some dual-cord units. Otherwise, you are writing off over 133,000 potential customers (Leafs sold so far).
After a little research last night I figured out how the EA charging stations work, and realize now that I had a misconception that may be shared. The EA chargers have 2 connectors on them, but apparently only 1 can be used at a time - so the "combined" EA stations with 1 CCS and 1 Chademo plug ARE what I was suggesting: you use either the CCS or chademo plug depending on your car. Replacing the chademo plug with another CCS plug does NOT mean 2 CCS cars can charge from the same station concurrently, so having the chademo connector doesn't really cost anything extra.

The dumb part is why the stations have 2 connectors on them that cannot be used simultaneously in the first place. I found a cached page with the explanation that is no longer on EA's website: the reason for 2 connectors on a station is simply convenience for which side the charging port is on your car. Rather than just have 1 connector with a 2 foot longer cable, they have a connector on each side with a slightly shorter cable. For the combined CCS and chademo stations, the parking spot is made wider so you can park your car's charging port closer to the cable with the matching charging connector.

I can only assume the reason for shorter cables is so they don't get run over since the extra length might be lying on the ground in front of the charger. Gas pumps have had the spring loaded cables that pull up the extra hose length for a long time, but I guess that was deemed inappropriate for a charging cable for some reason.

Whatever the logic, it is confusing for a novice like me.
 

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EA will add a single CHAdeMO adapter to a charger to stay in minimal compliance with the settlement agreement that EA is to be brand neutral.
I don't think it says anything about being brand neutral, but even if it did, Chademo isn't a brand, nor is CCS. The way I read it, EA could also add Tesla connectors (which given current marketshare, they would be wise to do). The way it's written, the stations have to be accessible to vehicles using non-proprietary connectors. As long as they have at least one non-proprietary connector, that requirement is satisfied, and they can add (or remove) whatever else they want.

I can only assume the reason for shorter cables is so they don't get run over since the extra length might be lying on the ground in front of the charger.
Maybe. It could also be because longer cables need to be bigger (the longer the cable the greater the resistance and thus greater the temperature rise), although in the scheme of a charging station that's probably in the noise.
 
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EVer

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Of course they will.
https://www.tesla.com/about/legal#patent-pledge

"Tesla irrevocably pledges that it will not initiate a lawsuit against any party for infringing a Tesla Patent through activity relating to electric vehicles or related equipment for so long as such party is acting in good faith. Key terms of the Pledge are explained below."

A party is "acting in good faith" for so long as such party and its related or affiliated companies have not:


  • asserted, helped others assert or had a financial stake in any assertion of (i) any patent or other intellectual property right against Tesla or (ii) any patent right against a third party for its use of technologies relating to electric vehicles or related equipment;
  • challenged, helped others challenge, or had a financial stake in any challenge to any Tesla patent; or
  • marketed or sold any knock-off product (e.g., a product created by imitating or copying the design or appearance of a Tesla product or which suggests an association with or endorsement by Tesla) or provided any material assistance to another party doing so.

This includes the chargers.

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https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/bc/e9/5e/d15e5d3b6cdd46/USD694188.pdf
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/cc/c9/97/4cabe76ee8ca4e/USD724031.pdf

Anyone can build it if they can figure it out. I suspect it's more a case of VW not wanting to support Tesla by expanding places for Tesla owners to DC fast charge. However, doing so is very short sighted for EA's potential profitability.
 

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