The Truth About Electric Cars Biggest Problem

stroszek

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Threads
4
Messages
204
Reaction score
272
Location
MN
Vehicles
Saab 92x
Country flag
I don't know. I favor an all of the above approach to climate change including massive spending on research but I don't think it's good to rely on future technological innovation to save us.

If we're assuming that the 10 billion spent on the EV credit would go to climate spending in its absence (which I don't think it would, I think the appeal to Congress was in part that it's a benefit for the affluent) I would rather spend that money on mass transit and ebikes. I think it would still be good to include generous EV subsidies for non-luxury cars as part of a broader climate package.
Sponsored

 

jhalkias

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Threads
122
Messages
2,482
Reaction score
4,953
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
'21 RR ME FE, '22 Corsair GT, '22 Lightning Lariat
Occupation
Benefit Fund Administrator
Country flag
You are kind of forgetting the fact that battery research IS happening, and a major reason is because battery companies are selling batteries because people are adopting BEV’s in part because they are subsidized through tax credits. So which approach would have been better - direct investment in research by government or subsidizing private enterprise research while at the same time promoting adoption of current technology? We are already far down the current path. The truth is I would not have faith in government to be as “fast” to find new solutions without a clear goal that government is focused on. Climate change could have been that goal, but we all see the wide disagreement on that issue that could have thwarted innovation. We just spent four years with an administration that thought they could revive COAL for Pete’s sake.
 

ChasingCoral

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Threads
376
Messages
12,403
Reaction score
24,517
Location
Maryland
Vehicles
GB E4X FE, Leaf, Tacoma, F-150 Lightning ordered
Occupation
Retired oceanographer
Country flag
When you're discussing different countries I think it's important to look at the per capita numbers rather than absolutes. China has 1.4B people compared to about 330M for the US or 445M for the EU.

Our World in Data pulls in pulls in CO2 info from the Global Carbon Project and lets you format it in pretty clear graphs/charts/maps. It's an interesting site to dig in to.

https://ourworldindata.org/per-capita-co2

co-emissions-per-capita.png
The fact that China's economy continues to grow and advance with flat per capita CO2 emissions really shows how much energy China gets from renewables now and how their renewable power production is growing.
 

ChasingCoral

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Threads
376
Messages
12,403
Reaction score
24,517
Location
Maryland
Vehicles
GB E4X FE, Leaf, Tacoma, F-150 Lightning ordered
Occupation
Retired oceanographer
Country flag
I don't think the US EV tax credit is great policy (make it refundable then it would be a lot better) but another EV on the road is a decrease in carbon emissions now while research is only the possibility of carbon emissions reductions later.

We have all the tech we need to start and cannot afford to wait.

The government should do a lot less subsidizing and a lot more building though.
How about we just remove all the fossil fuel subsidies and make them renewable energy subsidies with a sunset clause. Use them to spur new implementation and innovation and then go away once price parity is completed.
 

jhalkias

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Threads
122
Messages
2,482
Reaction score
4,953
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
'21 RR ME FE, '22 Corsair GT, '22 Lightning Lariat
Occupation
Benefit Fund Administrator
Country flag
Nothing is perfect and you could have fooled me as you didn’t mention it.

You obviously have a lot more faith in government research than I do. There would have been errors and blind alleys in such an approach too. Our government (especially these past four years) would not have pushed it forward. We would have heard about how battery research would cause cancer.
 


jhalkias

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Threads
122
Messages
2,482
Reaction score
4,953
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
'21 RR ME FE, '22 Corsair GT, '22 Lightning Lariat
Occupation
Benefit Fund Administrator
Country flag
Define “wealthy”. Is that all the folks that bought the 250,000 Leafs you mentioned?
 

jhalkias

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Threads
122
Messages
2,482
Reaction score
4,953
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
'21 RR ME FE, '22 Corsair GT, '22 Lightning Lariat
Occupation
Benefit Fund Administrator
Country flag
Well, we also have a different definition of wealthy. But of course some of us pay more in taxes than billionaires. Don’t get me wrong, my family does OK, but to call us wealthy is a joke - unless the comparison is to poverty.
would I like to see more and lower income people afford sustainable transportation? Absolutely. But I consider the wealthy the ones in gated communities and McMansions - not my upper middle class neighborhood.
just because you pay $7,500 or more in Federal Income tax is not a definition of wealth.
 

MailGuy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
646
Reaction score
951
Location
Washington
Vehicles
Bolt Premier, Mini Cooper SE, Mustang Mach E FE
Country flag
The fact that China's economy continues to grow and advance with flat per capita CO2 emissions really shows how much energy China gets from renewables now and how their renewable power production is growing.
I have to agree. Having travelled to China personally over the last decade, the advances they have made are quite astounding and noticeable, at least in urban areas.
 

jhalkias

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Threads
122
Messages
2,482
Reaction score
4,953
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
'21 RR ME FE, '22 Corsair GT, '22 Lightning Lariat
Occupation
Benefit Fund Administrator
Country flag
Not going to go downthe rabbit hole of government tax policy. Don’t think we want that on this car forum.

I will just agree to disagree with you whether private enterprise or government can do a better job of advancing battery technology without what the government perceives to be an existential crisis (and just FYI, I DO think it is, I just don’t think our government does). All the benefits we reaped from the space program research was because of that impetus.

Take a look at our current existential crisis with this virus. While I am not a fan of the drug companies by any stretch, they are the ones that have come up with the vaccines we are now hearing about.
Sponsored

 
 




Top