Advertisement



Mach-MI

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
387
Reaction score
279
Location
Detroit, MI
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3
Country flag
That's that same reason I don't expect BEVs to sell well in rural areas.

The more remote someone is, and needing to make long drives, I think the more likely they stick with the safety and security of gas fuel.
Whereas I see the opposite, the longer the drive, the greater the cost savings of a BEV will be realized. BEVs are the perfect long distance car. Get groceries with gas, road trip with a BEV.

"Safety and security" is electricity, clearly.
 

Mach-MI

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
387
Reaction score
279
Location
Detroit, MI
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3
Country flag
Called it. They've moved to per kWh pricing.

https://electrek.co/2020/09/16/electrify-america-updates-pricing-fairer-kwh-model-lower-prices/

- Fred Lambert

Electrify America has announced a significant update to its pricing structure resulting in lower prices — mainly through the introduction of kWh-based pricing.



With the charging industry still being somewhat recent, charging networks are trying to navigate a complex market that involves working closely with electric utilities and automakers.

Now after operating and growing its network for a few years and listening to customers, Electrify America is changing its entire pricing structure today with kWh-based pricing.

Kilowatt-hour pricing is generally regarded as fairer than time-based pricing since you pay for the actual electricity delivered to your vehicle.

Giovanni Palazzo, president and chief executive officer of Electrify America, commented on today’s announcement:


The new kWh-based pricing is available in 23 states, where it is possible based on the local regulations:

EAMap_Pricing_FINAL_.png

In those states, which are home to over 70% of Electrify America’s customers, EV owners charging on Electrify America’s network will be charged $0.43 per kWh.

For those who decide to pay a $4 per month Electrify America subscription, the price per kWh goes down to $0.31.Also of note, with this update, Electrify America has removed its $1 charge per charging session.

In the other markets, Electrify America is obligated to keep a per-minute pricing model due to local regulations controlling the sale of electricity.

However, the charging network is also updating its per-minute pricing with now just two power levels for electric cars chariging up to 90 kW ($0.16 per minute without subscription and $0.12 per minute with subscription) and EVs charging up to 350 kW ($0.32 per minute without subscription and $0.24 per minute with subscription).


In an interview with Electrek yesterday, Palazzo said that they are working with regulators to promote kWh-based pricing:


The CEO says that it might happen fast in some states, but the process could be slower in others.

Interestingly, Electrify America decided to go with a uniform pricing nationally instead of adjusting the prices for each market depending on the electricity rates.

Palazzo told Electrek that they wanted to go “all-in on simplification,” but they are still open to adapting the pricing per region in the future.

The new pricing structure is starting today at Electrify America’s more than 470 charging stations around the US.
Yup, the pricing is live in the app now. Will have to hit up an EA station in Colorado while I'm still here to check it out, or in MO/IL/MI on the way home.
 

ClaudeMach-E

Well-Known Member
First Name
Claude
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
286
Reaction score
163
Location
Quebec Canada
First Name
Claude
Vehicles
Mustang Mach 3- Tempo- Malibu(3)-Actual Kia Sportage AWD
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
No change on Electrify Canada yet, let's whatch. And by the way no new stations where added for a long time, so I'm not sure they are gone meet their objective for this year's planning.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
2,717
Reaction score
2,283
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Wow, those prices are dramatically lower. Looks like the per-minute price cut is actually bigger than the equivalent per-kWh. $0.32/minute vs the old $0.99/minute is only 32% of the old rate. A 68% price cut!!!

Using Ford's 10-80% in 45 minutes charge time, that would have been 61.6 kWh costing $44.55 (at the full $0.99 rate) = $0.72/kWh. The new $0.43/kWh rate is a 40% price cut. (Counting full rate before to full rate after).

Either way though, it's a huge (and unexpected) price cut. I thought it might be slightly lower, but Wow.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
2,717
Reaction score
2,283
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
Whereas I see the opposite, the longer the drive, the greater the cost savings of a BEV will be realized. BEVs are the perfect long distance car. Get groceries with gas, road trip with a BEV.

"Safety and security" is electricity, clearly.
The more miles driven at cheap residential rates, the bigger the per-mile fuel cost savings relative to ICE. At more expensive retail charging rates, not so much. Although EA's dramatic price cut today does put it roughly on par with gas (depending on the vehicle, and gas prices in that region).

For my Escape (comparable in size to the MME), gas on a highway drive works out to about $0.10/mile. EA's new rate of $0.43/kWh on a high speed estimated efficiency of somewhere around 3 miles/kWh works out to about $0.14/mile. And about $0.10/mile at the subscription rate (plus $4/mo). So it's roughly the same now.

Of course, that's only if you can find EA stations where you need them. A sketchy undertaking on many routes.
 

Mach-MI

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
387
Reaction score
279
Location
Detroit, MI
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3
Country flag
The more miles driven at cheap residential rates, the bigger the per-mile fuel cost savings relative to ICE. At more expensive retail charging rates, not so much. Although EA's dramatic price cut today does put it roughly on par with gas (depending on the vehicle, and gas prices in that region).

For my Escape (comparable in size to the MME), gas on a highway drive works out to about $0.10/mile. EA's new rate of $0.43/kWh on a high speed estimated efficiency of somewhere around 3 miles/kWh works out to about $0.14/mile. And about $0.10/mile at the subscription rate (plus $4/mo). So it's roughly the same now.

Of course, that's only if you can find EA stations where you need them. A sketchy undertaking on many routes.
I didn't disagree with anything you said...

My point was the more miles/year the more the BEV justifies itself.
 

ChasingCoral

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Messages
2,060
Reaction score
2,585
Location
Maryland
First Name
Mark
Vehicles
Mach-E FE reserved, Nissan Leaf, Toyota Tacoma
Country flag
So it will be interesting to see what the FordPass rates are. Will they be the EA member rates?
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
2,717
Reaction score
2,283
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
My point was the more miles/year the more the BEV justifies itself.
But again, that depends heavily on the price of charging.

At residential rates that are much cheaper than gas, yes. But at retail rates that are similar to or more than gas? Not really. It's those fuel savings that are needed to offset most of the extra $10k-15k vehicle price premium. Maintenance offsets a little but it's mostly about fuel savings.
 

timbop

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
1,182
Reaction score
1,364
Location
New Jersey
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2015 Mustang Convertible, 2016 Dodge Durango
Occupation
Software Engineer
Country flag
The real key is how your MME now compares to an ICE, based on $.31/kwh the member rates (assuming fordpass includes or you pay for it yourself), using $/mile to compare:

SR RWD MME:
68kwh * .31 = $21.08
$21.08/230 mi = $.0916 /mi

ER RWD MME:
88kwh * .31 = $27.28
$27.28/ 300mi = .0909

ER AWD MME:
88kwh * .31 = $27.28
$27.28/ 270mi = .101

ICE @25 mpg, $2.50/g:
$2.50 / 25mi = .10
 
Last edited:

JayTee

Active Member
First Name
Jeff
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
39
Reaction score
22
Location
Broomfield, Colorado, USA
First Name
Jeff
Vehicles
Mazda CX-5
Occupation
Sales Analysis
Country flag
The real key is how your MME now compares to an ICE, based on $.31/kwh the member rates (assuming fordpass includes or you pay for it yourself), using $/mile to compare:

SR RWD MME:
68kwh * .31 = $21.08
$21.08/230 mi = $.0916 /mi

ER AWD MME:
88kwh * .31 = $27.28
$27.28/ 300mi = .0909

ICE @25 mpg, $2.50/g:
$2 / 25mi = .10

I would think that since your fast charging - a car of similar size to the MME you should probably use something more like 35 highway mpg for the ice.
 

jhalkias

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
709
Reaction score
981
Location
Ohio
First Name
John
Vehicles
2016 Escape, 2019 Fusion Energi
Occupation
Benefit Fund Administrator
Country flag
I would think that since your fast charging - a car of similar size to the MME you should probably use something more like 35 highway mpg for the ice.
My AWD 2016 Escape - that I would consider to be similar size gets 26.7 MPG, and I do 95% of my miles on the Highway to and from the Office.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
2,717
Reaction score
2,283
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
The real key is how your MME now compares to an ICE, based on $.31/kwh the member rates (assuming fordpass includes or you pay for it yourself), using $/mile to compare:

SR RWD MME:
68kwh * .31 = $21.08
$21.08/230 mi = $.0916 /mi

ER RWD MME:
88kwh * .31 = $27.28
$27.28/ 300mi = .0909

ER AWD MME:
88kwh * .31 = $27.28
$27.28/ 270mi = .101

ICE @25 mpg, $2.50/g:
$2.50 / 25mi = .10
I know it's not a lot of money on just a couple of road trips per year, but getting the road trip refuel cost down to par with gas is a big psychological hurdle to me.

Long BEV road trips already take hours longer (which I know for some people is no big deal, but it is a negative for others). But then add to that the "twice the price to refuel" and it simply didn't make a lot of sense to choose the Mach-E in the garage for a long road trip rather than the Escape.

But now I can cross that negative off. With high speed mileage losses, it might be closer to $0.12/mile, but that's close enough to call it even. No $30-$45 refuels like it originally looked like. They should all be <$20 now.

Now I just need to convince myself to shift into "take my time" road trip driving instead of "just get there". I guess it's still gonna cost more because now a hotel stop each way is needed. But I can justify that more than paying twice the price for fuel.

This dramatic EA price cut is truly a game-changer.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
2,717
Reaction score
2,283
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
There is one negative to this that I can think of... chargers could be tied up longer, making it harder to get into one. The old per-minute pricing made it progressively expensive to charge past 60%... 70%... 80%... as the charge curve slowed. It was more likely people would move on after 20-30 minutes because of that progressive cost penalty.

But now, that cost disincentive is lifted. People will be more willing to charge deeper, perhaps walking down the street for a 60-minute sit-down meal instead of a 20-minute take-out burger. The 40c/minute idle fee still kicks in if they wait too long, but that has a 10-minute grace period after reaching 100% SOC. That could be 30 minutes longer than the normal 80% stopping point.
 

ClaudeMach-E

Well-Known Member
First Name
Claude
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
286
Reaction score
163
Location
Quebec Canada
First Name
Claude
Vehicles
Mustang Mach 3- Tempo- Malibu(3)-Actual Kia Sportage AWD
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
But again, that depends heavily on the price of charging.

At residential rates that are much cheaper than gas, yes. But at retail rates that are similar to or more than gas? Not really. It's those fuel savings that are needed to offset most of the extra $10k-15k vehicle price premium. Maintenance offsets a little but it's mostly about fuel savings.
At the same time road trips are only 5% to 10% of your energy cost for the car
 



 










Advertisement


Top