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ClaudeMach-E

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There is one negative to this that I can think of... chargers could be tied up longer, making it harder to get into one. The old per-minute pricing made it progressively expensive to charge past 60%... 70%... 80%... as the charge curve slowed. It was more likely people would move on after 20-30 minutes because of that progressive cost penalty.

But now, that cost disincentive is lifted. People will be more willing to charge deeper, perhaps walking down the street for a 60-minute sit-down meal instead of a 20-minute take-out burger. The 40c/minute idle fee still kicks in if they wait too long, but that has a 10-minute grace period after reaching 100% SOC. That could be 30 minutes longer than the normal 80% stopping point.
I"m not sure of that, what would be the point of charging to 100% if charging to 80 % is enough for youy to make the next leg? Besides we all know that charging the battery to 100% is not necessaraly a good idea, costly or not.
 

silverelan

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There's tension between charging past 80% and the amount of time wasted ekeing out those few extra percentages.

I suspect that on road trips and at the charging stations where it really matters, people are not going to be lingering much. After 30 plus minutes, travelers are usually ready to move on.
 

dbsb3233

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At the same time road trips are only 5% to 10% of your energy cost for the car
Oh I agree for city/suburban drivers that can charge at home. But he was talking about rural drivers (going back a few posts). People that live in more remote locations and who's drives are regularly long ones.
 

timbop

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I can see both sides of it, and will add that a lot depends on time of day as well as what is within walking distance of the site - with "walking distance" further being dependent upon the road/sidewalk conditions. I am positive that I would prefer a good sit-down dinner over fast food after a long drive so don't mind lingering IF conditions are right. Other times of the day (even at breakfast or lunch) I'll want to maximize speed. At least along the mid/south atlantic seaboard, it seems a lot of the sites are at walmarts and targets that don't necessarily have great options other than fast food anyway. There are certainly many that do have at least a mid-tier sit down place that one would be able to walk to, but some are off of major highways or off the beaten path with no practical walkable alternative.

In the end, I don't think the charger hogs will be too bad at most sites even at typical meal times.
 

dbsb3233

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I"m not sure of that, what would be the point of charging to 100% if charging to 80 % is enough for youy to make the next leg? Besides we all know that charging the battery to 100% is not necessaraly a good idea, costly or not.
The point would be to make the next leg longer so you don't have to stop as soon, or as often.

Of course, that's dictated a lot by the spacing of EA chargers. But let's say the next two in your drive that day are at 80 miles and 160 miles. Charging to 100% may get you to that 160 mile one without having make an additional stop at the 80 mile one too.

Not a big deal if you're only driving a total of 300-400 miles that day, but perhaps a bigger deal if driving 500-800.
 

ChasingCoral

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I would think that since your fast charging - a car of similar size to the MME you should probably use something more like 35 highway mpg for the ice.
How about we compare it to Mustang mileage?

BD798B28-BCEC-4B18-A2C4-E883D0992174.png
 

dbsb3233

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There's tension between charging past 80% and the amount of time wasted ekeing out those few extra percentages.

I suspect that on road trips and at the charging stations where it really matters, people are not going to be lingering much. After 30 plus minutes, travelers are usually ready to move on.
I can see both. On a drive that normally uses 5 charges of 30 minutes each, I could see someone taking one or two of those stops and planning a longer stop 60-70 minute stop (like for a sit-down meal, or a little shopping or sightseeing). Especially if it means being able to skip the next charger stop because they charged up to 100%.

But for the ones in between, yes, the shorter the better.
 

ClaudeMach-E

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The point would be to make the next leg longer so you don't have to stop as soon, or as often.

Of course, that's dictated a lot by the spacing of EA chargers. But let's say the next two in your drive that day are at 80 miles and 160 miles. Charging to 100% may get you to that 160 mile one without having make an additional stop at the 80 mile one too.

Not a big deal if you're only driving a total of 300-400 miles that day, but perhaps a bigger deal if driving 500-800.
And yet there's the human factor, and that is different for everyone, there are those stops that you have to do, yes those could take only a few minutes but can be extended to 15/20 min so your next stop will be further too.

EDIT: So at the end of the day much factors could come in and have an impact of your decision to stop here or there, and this will probably vary from trip to trip. Cause finally stopping twice 30 min or once 1 hour all things become equal.
 

dbsb3233

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And yet there's the human factor, and that is different for everyone, there are those stops that you have to do, yes those could take only a few minutes but can be extended to 15/20 min so your next stop will be further too.

EDIT: So at the end of the day much factors could come in and have an impact of your decision to stop here or there, and this will probably vary from trip to trip. Cause finally stopping twice 30 min or once 1 hour all things become equal.
Agreed, it's different for everyone. And if one charges longer at stop A in order to skip stop B, it means one less person tying up the stop B charger. So that kind of offsets too.

Although if we're the one waiting at the station while all 3 CCS pumps are full, I know we're hoping those people are doing 20 minutes charges rather than 60 minute ones. 😁
 

dbsb3233

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I just think this car will take more sales from small SUVs than from sports cars.
Totally agree. In fact, it appears most traditional Mustang drivers hate it. If I had a dime for every tweet that said #notamustang, I'd be rich.

For us, the fact that it was a crossover (can't really say it's a true SUV either) was the first prerequisite. The fact that it had some Mustang styling and was named a Mustang was just a cool bonus.
 

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I just think this car will take more sales from small SUVs than from sports cars.
OK, so we'll do the math for ICE at a little better MPG, but we also have to be realistic about gas prices going forward - especially since there are going to be fewer suppliers in the future. Regardless, the fuel cost is still roughly on par between the EA rates and ICE:

$2.50 / 35mi = $.0714/mi
$3.00 / 35 = $.0857/mi

For a relatively long trip of 1000 miles, at $.091/mi the MME will cost $91 and an efficient ICE will be in the range of $71 to $85. That's a pretty small difference on that 1000 mile trip, and you did it in a car that did most of the driving. That's a pretty good deal.

Oh, and you contributed far less CO2 to the atmosphere to boot.
 

JayTee

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OK, so we'll do the math for ICE at a little better MPG, but we also have to be realistic about gas prices going forward - especially since there are going to be fewer suppliers in the future. Regardless, the fuel cost is still roughly on par between the EA rates and ICE:

$2.50 / 35mi = $.0714/mi
$3.00 / 35 = $.0857/mi

For a relatively long trip of 1000 miles, at $.091/mi the MME will cost $91 and an efficient ICE will be in the range of $71 to $85. That's a pretty small difference on that 1000 mile trip, and you did it in a car that did most of the driving. That's a pretty good deal.

Oh, and you contributed far less CO2 to the atmosphere to boot.
Do you think gas prices are going to increase as people switch to electric vehicles?
 

timbop

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Do you think gas prices are going to increase as people switch to electric vehicles?
BEV share won't be more than 5-10% in the next 5 years, and yes I absolutely expect gas prices to go up post covid-19. Even as BEV adoption starts to make a dent, there will be fewer suppliers in addition to fewer ICE cars.
 

JayTee

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BEV share won't be more than 5-10% in the next 5 years, and yes I absolutely expect gas prices to go up post covid-19. Even as BEV adoption starts to make a dent, there will be fewer suppliers in addition to fewer ICE cars.
I agree that gas prices will go up post coveted, to about where they were a year ago.

Fewer ice cars means lower gas prices, ceteris paribus.
 



 










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