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DBC

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It's well known that coal is dead because it's not price competitive. And since it's apparent that it will become even less competitive over time, utilities aren't building any new coal plants.------

There is a slight problem with the above statement:
Stop it. Just stop it. The numbers I gave you are for the US, which you either knew or should have known. But hopefully you recognize the impossibility of comparing economic decisions by profit seeking companies to political decisions by authoritarian governments.
 
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dbsb3233

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It's well known that coal is dead because it's not price competitive. And since it's apparent that it will become even less competitive over time, utilities aren't building any new coal plants.------

There is a slight problem with the above statement: - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ive-coal-expansion-in-threat-to-climate-goals

- https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ower-plant-climate-change-tokyo-a9316271.html

- https://www.wired.com/story/china-is-still-building-an-insane-number-of-new-coal-plants/
I always balk when people use terms like "xxx is dead". That's just gross exaggeration. We hear similar exaggeration about oil and ICE.

Yes, their market share is shrinking. Yes, the trend is downward. But they sure as heck ain't "dead". People tend to forget just how massive the amount of energy is that those things provide for us. And the massive amount of sunk investment, and the massive cost it takes to replace. It's like turning the Titanic. The shift will be measured in decades, not months.
 

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It's well known that coal is dead because it's not price competitive. And since it's apparent that it will become even less competitive over time, utilities aren't building any new coal plants.------

There is a slight problem with the above statement: - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ive-coal-expansion-in-threat-to-climate-goals

- https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ower-plant-climate-change-tokyo-a9316271.html

- https://www.wired.com/story/china-is-still-building-an-insane-number-of-new-coal-plants/
The United States is a major source of natural gas, japan and china are not. Part of that has been from fracking which is in decline right now, but nonetheless the economics are different here. Coal has been more expensive to natural gas for a while now.
 

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The United States is a major source of natural gas, japan and china are not. Part of that has been from fracking which is in decline right now, but nonetheless the economics are different here. Coal has been more expensive to natural gas for a while now.
Fracking is in decline because gas and oil prices are really low right now.
 

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Why do you think China is building so many coal plants?
because IN CHINA natural gas is not cheaper. In the United States it is. Hint: look up rankings of natural gas producing nations
 

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Fracking is in decline because gas and oil prices are really low right now.
yes, and that is because demand plummetted from coronaviurus. do we really need to go through this exercise???????
 

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because IN CHINA natural gas is not cheaper. In the United States it is. Hint: look up rankings of natural gas producing nations
I think his point is that coal is more expensive than renewable energy. Why is China building coal-fired generation instead of exclusively renewable generation?
 

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yes, and that is because demand plummetted from coronaviurus. do we really need to go through this exercise???????
You said fracking is in decline. I gave you the reason. If gas and oil prices increased do you not think that fracking would increase?

Feel free to use fewer than seven question-marks per sentence in your response.
 

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It means that plants are built based on how they fit into existing plants. They aren't built to supply power at times when there is a power surplus.

The grid operator has refused to name the plant. If you're interested you can find plenty of articles that provide detail.
Still anxiously waiting for you to link me to one of those many articles, or just tell me the name of the plant.
 

DBC

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Are you telling me I can find it but you cannot? If you know the name of the plant, just tell me or provide a link to one of those many articles.
I told you the system operator has refused to release the name of the plant. What part of that don't you understand? But if you're interested in understanding the story just do a search. If you try and fail, come back and I'll give you a link. But if you're not willing to give a minimum effort then I can't be bothered.
 

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I think his point is that coal is more expensive than renewable energy. Why is China building coal-fired generation instead of exclusively renewable generation?
The ORIGINAL disagreement was electricity generation in the US, and how coal is uncompetetive HERE. If the goal is to save face and deflect the discussion to China, be my guest and waste 5 more pages.

Clearly renewables require a solution to load leveling and peak demand that hasn't been worked out yet, which IS a global problem that will make some companies and nations rich. Until that happens some form of fossil fuel generation is a necessary evil, but that doesn't preclude transitioning a larger portion of generation to renewables from the paltry fractions it occupies now.
 

DBC

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Still anxiously waiting for you to link me to one of those many articles, or just tell me the name of the plant.
Still anxiously waiting for you to show you can do a basic internet search. As I said, if you try and fail, come back and I'll help.
 

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I told you the system operator has refused to release the name of the plant. What part of that don't you understand? But if you're interested in understanding the story just do a search. If you try and fail, come back and I'll give you a link. But if you're not willing to give a minimum effort then I can't be bothered.
I tried and failed. Please provide the best link you know of.
 

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Why do you think China is building so many coal plants?
Why do you think China is building so many solar installs, wind installs, high speed electric train installs...leads the world in all categories.

China has more high speed (as in mag lev trains on many routes) than rest of the word combined.

US looks like 3rd world.
 



 









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