The truth about Electrify America's progress and Traveling with the Mach E

[macchiaz-o]

Yup. Saw that. Will I get royalties?

No, but you might get a token X-plan discount.

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[dbsb3233]

Except the Mach-e doesn't charge at 350 kW. It charges at 150 kW (temporary peak). But at the same per-minute price. Meaning it's over twice that price.

Again, 45 minutes to charge 10-80% of an 88 kWh battery. That's 45 x $0.99 (full rate) = $44.55 for 61.6 kWh = $0.72/kWh. 29% discount for EA Pass+ = $0.51/kWh.

 

[silverelan]

My apologies but I have a difficult time following your thought process. From what I understand, it doesn't seem like your Tesla Model 3 using a CHAdeMO adapter on an EA station at 50kW is a good stand-in for a Mustang Mach-E. Perhaps it is time to stop making the comparison?

 

[eastern refugee]

I cannot believe all of this crap about how it is going to impact my long drive and omg all these stops blah blah. Whatever dude. BEV is a way of life. It is new thinking and for those with archaic fears etc stick to an ICE. You probably still think snail mail is very effective v

 

[timbop]

I cannot believe all of this crap about how it is going to impact my long drive and omg all these stops blah blah. Whatever dude. BEV is a way of life. It is new thinking and for those with archaic fears etc stick to an ICE. You probably still think snail mail is very effective v

I don't know who that is directed at, but it is uncalled for and unnecessary.

 

[polzovotel]

I cannot believe all of this crap about how it is going to impact my long drive and omg all these stops blah blah. Whatever dude. BEV is a way of life. It is new thinking and for those with archaic fears etc stick to an ICE. You probably still think snail mail is very effective v

Believe what you want, but a long trip will cost you 3-4 times more with EA than with ICE car. If you are willing to pay this money because BEV is a way of life - let it be your choice. Do not impose it on others. Right now CSS charging providers are not reliable and very expensive, so long trips with non-Tesla cars make little sense. This is my way of life

 

[Billyk24]

I cannot believe all of this crap about how it is going to impact my long drive and omg all these stops blah blah. Whatever dude. BEV is a way of life. It is new thinking and for those with archaic fears etc stick to an ICE. You probably still think snail mail is very effective v

The lack of fast charging stations in some regions is an issue that will hinder the use of BEV. for longer road trips. More fast chargers and improved range of BEV are needed.

 

[ChasingCoral]

The lack of fast charging stations in some regions is an issue that will hinder the use of BEV. for longer road trips. More fast chargers and improved range of BEV are needed.

More fast chargers, yes. I think automakers should worry more about charging speed than added range for now. 300 miles is fine, more than 400 is overkill.

 

[timbop]

More fast chargers, yes. I think automakers should worry more about charging speed than added range for now. 300 miles is fine, more than 400 is overkill.

Yes, it's a fine balance - somewhat like the DSLR industry a decade ago. For a while there was a strong emphasis on stuffing more megapixels on a sensor at the cost of how good those pixels were in lower light levels. More range is nice if your trip is within that range, but as you go beyond it then the charging stop takes much longer. Of course, one can simply charge more frequently to a lower SOC, so it isn't a perfect metaphor .

 

[dbsb3233]

More fast chargers, yes. I think automakers should worry more about charging speed than added range for now. 300 miles is fine, more than 400 is overkill.

The problem is that 300 miles isn't really 300 miles (where it matters). 300 is more like a practical 200 on the highway. By comparison, my Escape (pretty typical) can get a practical 350 on the highway. So there's still a long way to go there. An EPA 400 (300 practical highway) would be just about right. Maybe even 500 until 100% SOC (rather than 80%) charging on the road becomes practical.

But yes, charging speed need to come way down too. That's just as important. Ironically, slow charging times are another reason longer range is needed -- to avoid as many long recharging stops.

And here's another angle we rarely address... energy density is going to have to improve to enable more of the larger vehicles the US market wants. The MME is great but it's still on the small side (roughly equivalent to an Escape interior). But many consumers want something the size of an Edge, or an Explorer, or an Excursion. To get 300+ miles in those, it's gonna take much higher energy density.

 

[silverelan]

The problem is that 300 miles isn't really 300 miles (where it matters). 300 is more like a practical 200 on the highway.

Can you walk us through how you reached 200 practical highway miles if EPA range is 300?

 

[timbop]

Can you walk us through how you reached 200 practical highway miles if EPA range is 300?

Well, after the initial leg where you're at 100% SOC, you're probablhy going to only charge to 80% max. You're also unlikely to risk draining it to 0% on a road trip, so a safe point is 10%. Just due to that, you're looking at 210 miles (.7 * 300). Then there's the fact that at 70+ MPH, even the most aerodynamic BEV's only get 75-80% efficiency (there's a whole thread on this). Being charitable, we'll say 15% loss: 210*.85 = 178.5.

So, however you slice it, after the first leg your practical range is less than 200mi at highway speed.

 

[Paulalex01]

Well, after the initial leg where you're at 100% SOC, you're probablhy going to only charge to 80% max. You're also unlikely to risk draining it to 0% on a road trip, so a safe point is 10%. Just due to that, you're looking at 210 miles (.7 * 300). Then there's the fact that at 70+ MPH, even the most aerodynamic BEV's only get 75-80% efficiency (there's a whole thread on this). Being charitable, we'll say 15% loss: 210*.85 = 178.5.

So, however you slice it, after the first leg your practical range is less than 200mi at highway speed.

Also cabin comfort (heat/air)and vehicle safety (lights)comes at a kWh cost. It may be figured in to averages but still a factor.

 

[Billyk24]

The problem is that 300 miles isn't really 300 miles (where it matters). 300 is more like a practical 200 on the highway. By comparison, my Escape (pretty typical) can get a practical 350 on the highway. So there's still a long way to go there. An EPA 400 (300 practical highway) would be just about right. Maybe even 500 until 100% SOC (rather than 80%) charging on the road becomes practical.

But yes, charging speed need to come way down too. That's just as important. Ironically, slow charging times are another reason longer range is needed -- to avoid as many long recharging stops.

And here's another angle we rarely address... energy density is going to have to improve to enable more of the larger vehicles the US market wants. The MME is great but it's still on the small side (roughly equivalent to an Escape interior). But many consumers want something the size of an Edge, or an Explorer, or an Excursion. To get 300+ miles in those, it's gonna take much higher energy density.

Agreed. This is where solid state bstteries will help. They have more energy density and the pouches are smaller (from the QS data and photos that Bill Gates has a stake in) for the equivalent liquid lithium ion batteries). Thus in the same size battery pack, one could pack more pouches). Longer range without redesigning the platform.

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