dbsb3233

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Fun fact regarding demand charges: ~60 of the Electrify America sites so far have Tesla Powerpacks at them to help reduce demand charges/grid impact.
That may help, but it also comes at a serious cost to buy and install those. Kinda of a "pay me now or pay be later" thing. I'm sure they've done the cost analysis to see which way ends up costing them less. And that's gonna depend a lot on usage level. The stations that get high usage during peak periods will see the most demand charges, thus be the biggest candidates for storage.

But wow, those things are expensive!

https://electrek.co/2020/03/31/tesla-powerpack-price-commercial-solar/
Sponsored

 

slawwach

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With relatively few CCS vehicles on the roads, each charger is sitting unused probably 95% of the day
In some regions even your number is optimistic. In the app EA shows when the last charging sessions took place. In my area most plugs were not used in the last 2 weeks even once. Sometimes I just wonder how will they stay afloat.

Regarding VT rates. This is interesting case - it costs $0.75/kWh if you're not a member and $0.31/kWh for members. Huge difference that I didn't see in any other state. In every other state that allows charging per kWh it is $0.43/kWh and $0.31/kWh accordingly.
Since VT charger is not open yet I expect this is just a typo.
 

Kamuelaflyer

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The fact that they don't have anything at the intersection between I-90 and I-35 is kind of a oversight IMHO since those are two of the longest interstates in the country. One of the first Tesla SC's was put there with the super goofy looking early SC towers, now they have two separate stations there with the newer style ones.
DCFC is a myth in a great many parts of the country. Having experience on I-90, the lack of DCFC stations is a bit perturbing to me. Even I-80 has more than a few long gaps. EA still has a long way to go imo.
 

Kamuelaflyer

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That may help, but it also comes at a serious cost to buy and install those. Kinda of a "pay me now or pay be later" thing. I'm sure they've done the cost analysis to see which way ends up costing them less. And that's gonna depend a lot on usage level. The stations that get high usage during peak periods will see the most demand charges, thus be the biggest candidates for storage.

But wow, those things are expensive!

https://electrek.co/2020/03/31/tesla-powerpack-price-commercial-solar/
Not cheap.

5-year-old Department of Energy document:

https://afdc.energy.gov/files/u/pub... cost of a single,51,000 for DC fast charging.

Hawaiian Electric documents from 4 years ago indicate costs on Oahu to be around $40,000 for a single 50 - 60 kWh station and that the owner can expect significant demand charges, although there are ways to mitigate those charges at the expense of a far higher cost to charge. If the underlying electrical infrastructure needs updating, then the costs will skyrocket. Most of the DCFC out here have an underlying electrical infrastructure for 150 kWh chargers. The one that doesn't have that capability on this island would be stunningly expensive to upgrade to 150 kWh.

And the $40,000? Hardware only as near as I can tell. Labor is far more. They don't go up overnight.
 

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silverelan

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That may help, but it also comes at a serious cost to buy and install those. Kinda of a "pay me now or pay be later" thing. I'm sure they've done the cost analysis to see which way ends up costing them less. And that's gonna depend a lot on usage level. The stations that get high usage during peak periods will see the most demand charges, thus be the biggest candidates for storage.

But wow, those things are expensive!

https://electrek.co/2020/03/31/tesla-powerpack-price-commercial-solar/
It's not used by EA, but Freewire has their Boost Charger. 160kWh integrated pack and can output 120kW to one car or 60kW to two cars simultaneously. Uses regular household or commercial AC power to refill the pack. It's gotta be quite a bit of $$ though.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/262762

 

Rhynri

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That may help, but it also comes at a serious cost to buy and install those. Kinda of a "pay me now or pay be later" thing. I'm sure they've done the cost analysis to see which way ends up costing them less. And that's gonna depend a lot on usage level. The stations that get high usage during peak periods will see the most demand charges, thus be the biggest candidates for storage.

But wow, those things are expensive!

https://electrek.co/2020/03/31/tesla-powerpack-price-commercial-solar/
That's why I added it as a "fun fact" instead of offering any analysis. It's just interesting to me, I'm not sure how the math works out. :)
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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that's a legitimate point. My final to-the-home cost I'm paying is $0.188/kWh.
Ford Mustang Mach-E The truth about Electrify America's progress and Traveling with the Mach E 1607120134224

I'm still amazed how much some of you are paying, even in "low rate" areas.
 

dbsb3233

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that's a legitimate point. My final to-the-home cost I'm paying is $0.188/kWh.
1607120134224.png

I'm still amazed how much some of you are paying, even in "low rate" areas.
Some of it is whether people are counting the incremental rate (just the next kWh), or counting all the fixed charges in there too. Here's my last bill...

Ford Mustang Mach-E The truth about Electrify America's progress and Traveling with the Mach E electric bill


If I divide usage over the full bill, I'm paying $0.135/kWh. But the incremental rate is just $0.0995/kWh.

In this case, I only count the latter because I'm paying those fixed charges regardless. Yes, they're part of the cost of electrical service, and should count toward the total "cost" of all usage (including the BEV). But in terms of how much my bill will go up with the Mach-E, it's just at the $0.0995 rate.
 

MattG

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In this case, I only count the latter because I'm paying those fixed charges regardless. Yes, they're part of the cost of electrical service, and should count toward the total "cost" of all usage (including the BEV). But in terms of how much my bill will go up with the Mach-E, it's just at the $0.0995 rate.
Your demand rate will also increase, depending on how fast your charger is. Could be worse though....where I live, that peak demand rate is max kW times $4.13!
 

dbsb3233

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Your demand rate will also increase, depending on how fast your charger is. Could be worse though....where I live, that peak demand rate is max kW times $4.13!
I've checked my demand periods, and they're always in the afternoon. I'll just set the Mach-E to charge after 10pm or something. Did the calculation and it will never draw enough to surpass the afternoon peaks and become the new demand peak.
 

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Your demand rate will also increase, depending on how fast your charger is. Could be worse though....where I live, that peak demand rate is max kW times $4.13!
Dude ... even Hawaiian Electric Light Company isn't that bad. And they're bad. ;)
 

Flowell

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Not sure if this is the right thread to post this question in... but I couldn't find it anywhere else. Can you set the max charge rate of the MME before each session on Electrify America (or any DCFC)? We have one at our walmart here and I would like to set my MME to set at 89 KW. the charge is $0.16/KWH for 1-90 KW and $0.32/KWH for 91-350 KW. I would be super annoyed if I charged at 95KW for an extended time and it would cost me twice as much as charging at 89KW but get about the same energy.
 
 




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