Tire wear / rotation on Mach-E and other EVs

[hybrid2bev]

Interesting point. . I will research some more to confirm this. Model S has an option to turn off the regen. I'm hoping Mach E has that option as well.

Thought I heard that the ‘whisper’ drive mode was described as a more ‘gliding’ experience. Maybe limited regen in ‘wisper’ mode. The ‘unbridled’ mode was described as having a much stronger almost like a gear kick down type regen. So it sounds like you can tweak the regen level based on the drive mode selected.

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[JamieGeek]

Because the regen only works on one of the axes (non-AWD), I wonder if the Mach-E/Tesla suffers from the same phenomenon as my C-Max? If the brake is pressed and you hit a speed bump or something at speed, the car will feel like it is lurching forward because the regen isn't having the same effect because the axel that hit the bump is loosing traction momentarily. Maybe being RWD and not FWD (like the C-Max) makes a difference.

I've experienced that in every plugin I've driven: Focus Electric, C-Max, and the Bolt.

I would bet it would be worse in a RWD only EV given that when stopping the car kind of nosedives reducing the weight on the rear axle.

The solution to that would be in the traction control system: when regening if it notices that the non-driven axle wheel speeds are faster than the driven-wheel speeds engage the friction brakes on the non-driven wheels for a fraction of a second.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Tire dust is pollution, and this invention will help vehicles clean up as they go

BENGT HALVORSON OCTOBER 5, 2020

Researchers in the UK have come up with a device that they say could dramatically cut the amount of tire dust that is released into the environment—and potentially, our lungs—as tires wear.

The James Dyson Award–winning innovation, made by a team from Imperial College London and Royal College of Art, was inspired by the movement to reduce the amount of microplastic pollution, which not only enters the air but also waterways—accounting for up to 50% of PM2.5 (fine particulate) and PM10 (particulate matter, or soot) emissions.

Awareness of particulate levels is likely at a high due to their health effects on a lung-based pandemic, the sharp swings in air pollution due to stay-at-home orders, and lingering forest-fire smoke in the American West. And setting tighter standards for internal combustion engines and tailpipes—which the U.S. EPA rejected earlier this year—is only part of the battle.

Although electric vehicles produce no tailpipe emissions and generally lead to lower emissions over their lifetime, they typically produce more tire emissions because they weigh more. A study from Emissions Analytics earlier this year actually claimed that particulate matter emissions from tire wear can be worse than that from tailpipes.

According to a 2017 study, about 550 tons of airborne particles from tires are produced annually. Further a study released in July pointed to tires and brake pads as the source of about 550,000 tons of ocean microplastic emissions annually.

The researchers, going by the name The Tyre Collective, found that the rubber particles that come off the tire as it wears are positively charged due to friction. Likening it to the charge from rubbing a balloon on a sweater, the team says it uses an array of electrostatic plates to capture the particles—currently about 60% of all airborne particles on the test rig.

The Tyre Collective says that the average car produces about 2 grams of tire dust a day while bus routes can produce hundreds of grams a day.


PM2.5 collector - The Tyre Collective

Implemented, the device would be mounted a certain distance away from the tire’s edge, somewhat like a fairing, attached to the steering knuckle. Captured tire particles are stored away in a cartridge and could actually be put to use in making new tires.

“By capturing right at the wheel we are more effective than outdoor HEPA filters, and consume less energy than vacuuming and conventional electrostatic precipitators,” stated the team, in a page presenting the award winners.

The team hopes to negotiate a development contract with a global automaker and research partnerships with two major tire producers. Although not specifically mentioned in this project, General Motors has expressed interest in being proactive in sustainable tire production and its impact. The Tyre Collective says it’s also already received letters of interest from an engineering chief for buses, so expect big trucks that pick up their own tire dust to be a thing of the not-too-distant future.

 

[SnBGC]

Interesting article...
EV tires wear faster because the vehicle weighs more and the full torque at >0 rpm. While you may not realize it....every time your car pulls away from a dead stop the tires are holding on for dear life compared to a similar ICE vehicle. The issue is compounded on front wheel drive EVs.

Then we get better and better at driving our cars each day. Most of us who have been driving an EV for a while know exactly how much "throttle" input we can apply before the tires break loose so we get pretty good at going right up to that limit but not over. In those cases we are REALLY punishing the tires.

EV ownership is no oil or filter changes but expect new tires more frequently.

 

[eastern refugee]

Interesting article...
EV tires wear faster because the vehicle weighs more and the full torque at >0 rpm. While you may not realize it....every time your car pulls away from a dead stop the tires are holding on for dear life compared to a similar ICE vehicle. The issue is compounded on front wheel drive EVs.

Then we get better and better at driving our cars each day. Most of us who have been driving an EV for a while know exactly how much "throttle" input we can apply before the tires break loose so we get pretty good at going right up to that limit but not over. In those cases we are REALLY punishing the tires.

EV ownership is no oil or filter changes but expect new tires more frequently.

I never thought of that. Thank you

 

[fawzma]

Do EV's have some sort of creep mode where the car can start a slow roll when the brake is released?

 

[Badger_Prof]

That is unreal !! I never tried that with the Roadster. I guess my point is
at normal driving and quick start will not break tires loose. Any input
from other EV owners ?
Again from dead stop to flooring it no spin.

Bolt EV easily spins tires from a stop or even from 20 mph if floored.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Bolt EV easily spins tires from a stop or even from 20 mph if floored.

and as I've said elsewhere, my Fusion in EV mode chirps the tires on occasion.

instant torque is amazing and once you have it, everything else feels slow.

 

[SnBGC]

Do EV's have some sort of creep mode where the car can start a slow roll when the brake is released?

Mine does.

 

[Totallyford]

That is unreal !! I never tried that with the Roadster. I guess my point is
at normal driving and quick start will not break tires loose. Any input
from other EV owners ?
Again from dead stop to flooring it no spin.

I have a C Max and when the bat is at 3/4 charge or better and at a dead stop, if you dont take it easy you will spin and squeal the tires when you hit the go peddle.

 

[Rayw88]

My day of reckoning came this week. Took my car in for tire rotation after 7 months, 5500 miles. Fronts: 7/32, Rears: 5/32!!!! Guy says I will need new tires in 3 months! Was having fun enjoying my Mach E Select, RWD: driving aggressively, jack rabbits starts, cornering and heavy 1-pedal regen stops, One time, tried to keep up with a Tesla S and lost. Been driving like a grandpa since the tire rotation. Hoping to stretch the 3 months to maybe 5 months. Weather and roads will be cooler at least. Do OEM tires not last as long as non-OEM? Any recommendations for when I need new tires?

 

[SnBGC]

My day of reckoning came this week. Took my car in for tire rotation after 7 months, 5500 miles. Fronts: 7/32, Rears: 5/32!!!! Guy says I will need new tires in 3 months! Was having fun enjoying my Mach E Select, RWD: driving aggressively, jack rabbits starts, cornering and heavy 1-pedal regen stops, One time, tried to keep up with a Tesla S and lost. Been driving like a grandpa since the tire rotation. Hoping to stretch the 3 months to maybe 5 months. Weather and roads will be cooler at least. Do OEM tires not last as long as non-OEM? Any recommendations for when I need new tires?

I guess I am not having enough fun because my tires are wearing well so far. I will try harder.

At 10k miles I had 9/32nd on the front and 8/32nd on the rear.
At 19k miles I still had 9/32nd on the front and one of the rears dropped to 7/32.
I am measuring dead center of the tread. Not sure if that is the correct spot....maybe I am doing it wrong?

 

[eastern refugee]

This is my comment.
I got my FE In mid February. I now have 20,000 miles.

when I got my car I immediately went to America’s Tire. I purchase a warranty for $150 and it gave me

Lifetime free rotation

lifetime free rotation

free new tire zero depreciation if the tire has damage that cannot be fixed. The only thing it does not cover is if it is worn out.

that $150 cover ALL 4 tires. Now that all being said I go in every 5,000 miles and do the rotation and balancing as it is free.

the tires that came on the car are rated for 45,000 miles. So far they are telling me that I have between 25,000-35,000 miles left. In short there is no increase in tire wear based on what the tire is supposed to do. I also found out that the replacement tires which are also Michelin defenders I think have a 75,000 mile wear rating. The total cost of 4 tires plus the extra stuff like mounting, balancing and taxes is $1200 for a set.

my recommendation is to do what I do. If you do this every 5,009 miles you will get the most wear out of your tires. At the same time you can catch early any strange wear patterns. $150 was extremely well spent.

 

[HuntingPudel]

<snip>
my recommendation is to do what I do. If you do this every 5,009 miles you will get the most wear out of your tires. At the same time you can catch early any strange wear patterns. $150 was extremely well spent.

But don’t do it at 5,008 or 5,010 miles! Bad things will happen. ??

 

[ToadStool]

This article provides what seems to be a really good explanation on why tires may wear faster for an EV: http://www.takechargeandgo.com/2015/08/02/tires-the-achilles-heel-of-the-electric-vehicle/

It's long. To summarize:

• Greater vehicle weight due to battery
• Hard-cornering
• Jack-rabbit starts
• Smaller tires (e.g. narrower), and low-rolling resistance designs, both of which leads to a smaller contact patch area, which means more likelihood of tire slip

I don't think regenerative braking plays any role in worsening wear. At least, I still am not understanding how that could be?

Maybe the regenerative deceleration is greater than the gentler deceleration that I already employ as a driver while coasting to a stop. But this is no different than drivers who wait longer than I do to begin decelerating. As an owner, I would adjust MME's deceleration curve (assuming it's adjustable) so that it isn't harsher than what I'm used to.

Interesting. Sorry, I didn't click on your link. But if tire wear does increase as a result of regenerative braking, my guess is because of the increased resistance and its frequency.

I love the 1-pedal concept. Over many years I've conditioned myself to appreciate coasting by letting up on the accelerator. So I do it with great frequency. With 1-pedal, that's inducing some pretty serious resistance and at great quantities of frequencies.

Not to mention that when letting up on the accelerator with 1-pedal, it's significantly more intense "braking" that when I would normally apply the brake pedal.

Given that, I could see how regenerative braking could easily induce more tire wear.

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