Took ownership today of my Mach E

[Reign of Ravens]

It's not yet clear whether electric will take over the auto industry (today's BEVs are pretty inefficient, lugging giant heavy batteries everywhere they go), but it seems likely that ICEVs will largely die out over the next 50-100 years, and be replaced by something better. The end may come quickly - that last 1% of gas stations - but it will take decades to get to that point.

It's pretty clear, although some of it may be artificially forced. California and some European countries banning the sales of ICE cars in about ten years will have a major impact, but not for the reason people think. People assume ICE cars will dry up around that point but there will still be many in circulation and in use. The average length of use for a car is something like 11 years, isn't it? And many others go longer. But again it influences mind share. If people aren't already spooked by seeing an increasing amount of electric vehicles on the road today, the idea that we're getting close to the end of new sales will further influence what's being purchased.

Some people think that those bans will be extended or not enforced, but it doesn't even matter if California and those other countries stick to their sales ban. What matters is that people now know that there's a defined end to these vehicles. I think EVs could win on their own merit, but this will speed it up.

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[timbop]

Some people think that those bans will be extended or not enforced, but it doesn't even matter if California and those other countries stick to their sales ban. What matters is that people now know that there's a defined end to these vehicles. I think EVs could win on their own merit, but this will speed it up.

That SHOULD be true, but unfortunately it won't be. The push to BEVs is based on anticipated market forces, and BEVs are now becoming a political hot button. This is being stoked by the oil companies, but also by politicians who need an easy "wedge issue" to get votes. It's also an easy thing for propagandists to rail against to get followers.

As the anti-BEV movement gets more politicized and organized, the manufacturers will keep making ICEs rather than give up half the market. These bans will then go by the wayside. If you don't think that's true, take a look at how well the ban on incandescent light bulbs has gone. The ban was reversed for no reason whatsoever, and people are a lot more emotional about their cars than their lightbulbs.

 

[EELinneman]

I joke with my wife that I like long trips in the MachE because it's like Oregon Trail. I have not died of dysentery yet, but I enjoy the logistics/planning aspect of it. I might even be a little sad when there's DCFC at every exit and you don't have to plan out road trips.

Dysentery? Perhaps try that Taco Bell charging stop that @scoopman has in his video! I do like the analogy though.

 

[scoopman]

Dysentery? Perhaps try that Taco Bell charging stop that @scoopman has in his video! I do like the analogy though.

Oh there's food poisoning for everyone's tastes at that EA stop in Bakersfield....

Pizza Hut, convience store junk food, subway, as well as the Taco Bell!

 

[Blue highway]

That SHOULD be true, but unfortunately it won't be. The push to BEVs is based on anticipated market forces, and BEVs are now becoming a political hot button. This is being stoked by the oil companies, but also by politicians who need an easy "wedge issue" to get votes. It's also an easy thing for propagandists to rail against to get followers.

As the anti-BEV movement gets more politicized and organized, the manufacturers will keep making ICEs rather than give up half the market. These bans will then go by the wayside. If you don't think that's true, take a look at how well the ban on incandescent light bulbs has gone. The ban was reversed for no reason whatsoever, and people are a lot more emotional about their cars than their lightbulbs.

Good analogy on the incandescent light bulbs. I knew people that hoarded the things when they were phased out. In my observation, it's a similar mindset to the opposition to EVs

Never underestimate the power of "fear of change"

 

[TGIF]

I have mixed feelings about this one.

On one hand, if you live in an apartment and don't work at a place where you have chargers, then yes, it can be a problem. I had my Leaf for a few months before I had my house and lived that life, hunting for a public level 2 charger each weekend and then making a small event out of it while waiting for my car to charge. I'd see other people sitting in their cars, working on laptops and the like. That took dedication and is not something I could see most people doing. It was a bit stressful if I couldn't find a spot. But then I started working at a place that had chargers for us to use for free, and it just made so much sense to charge at work.

Long distance driving would have been a nightmare in the Leaf. It would potentially be stressful with the Mach-E. There was a time in my life where I'd make a 640-mile round trip drive every other weekend, and an electric vehicle might have been an issue for me then. But now, how often am I making drives like that? Barely ever. If I had to, I'd probably rent a gas-powered car. The big question is, how often are most people doing it?

An analogy is to wonder if a commuter vehicle is fine for most people, instead of a pick-up truck. After all, what if you need to haul something huge, or move large loads? And sure, there are some people who really are using the flatbed of their truck weekly, if not daily. They need that truck. But for most everybody else, you rent a U-Haul van or truck for what you need, and that's it. I don't need to buy a van or truck for those once-every-few-years events.

As chargers become more prevalent, and perhaps as the electrical systems improve (Ford's system is decent, but you look at Kia's and Porsche's platforms for what is class-leading... and a number of proposed battery technologies are poised to cut times down even further in the future) it'll become a non-issue. In that regard I agree that we're all early adopters right now. I'm just not sure that EVs aren't ready for mainstream as they are, right now.


The political nature of it is really unfortunate. When people push back with the idea that BEV is worse, environmentally, than ICE - especially when it's out of the blue - then you know they're just looking to be downers about it and are parroting talking points. Most people never talked about the environmental impact of ICE-driven vehicles before. Emissions as a whole, yes, but I don't recall hearing people talking about specific vehicles, or even classes of vehicles (petrol vs diesel), with such fervor.

In our time of divisive politics, I get that it's just another thing to divide people on. But I do sometimes wonder if ICE drivers have given thought to what the expansion of BEVs on the road really means. Because there is a threat there: fewer ICE vehicles means less money going to gas stations. Once the gas stations start to close down, ICE drivers will begin to suffer range anxiety issues. But their range anxiety will likely be worse, because unlike BEVs, they won't have the recourse of being able to refuel at home, or any place where there's an electrical outlet. The next 5-10 years are going to be really interesting.

I’ve been most irritated by the guys who state they’ll buy an EV when it gets 500 miles of range. Really? You only stop every 500 miles of driving? You don’t have a place to charge it when not driving? I’m irritated because they are failing to educate themselves about the pros and cons of EVs and, frankly, range isn’t everything. Yep, they want progress. They just don’t want change.

 

[kennethjk]

Good analogy on the incandescent light bulbs. I knew people that hoarded the things when they were phased out. In my observation, it's a similar mindset to the opposition to EVs

Never underestimate the power of "fear of change"

I wonder how many ICE cars they can store in the kitchen For future use?

 

[Blue highway]

I wonder how many ICE cars they can store in the kitchen For future use?

I follow a lot of car forums... there is a rising thought that "you need to get your V-8 while you can". Similar to things I'd hear about incandescent lightbulbs.

Nostalgia is fun... but sticking with old tech because of fear... not so much.

 

[kennethjk]

I follow a lot of car forums... there is a rising thought that "you need to get your V-8 while you can". Similar to things I'd hear about incandescent lightbulbs.

Nostalgia is fun... but sticking with old tech because of fear... not so much.

I have a friend who feels that way, he will go down fighting, he just bought a C8 Vette

say what you want about EVs and I think they can be great, there is nothing like the sound of the right V8 or my 911 when you start it up or accelerate. My dad had a 1968 Pontiac GTO that was assume, of course he would only get 8 gallons to the mile.

 

[mkhuffman]

I’ve been most irritated by the guys who state they’ll buy an EV when it gets 500 miles of range. Really? You only stop every 500 miles of driving? You don’t have a place to charge it when not driving? I’m irritated because they are failing to educate themselves about the pros and cons of EVs and, frankly, range isn’t everything. Yep, they want progress. They just don’t want change.

This doesn't irritate me at all.

I think the 500-600 mile BEV is needed for mass adoption. But I don't mean 500 miles EPA range, I mean 500 miles true highway range at 75-80 mph. If you can skip the DCFC and only charge at your home and destination, it solves a lot of infrastructure problems. And reduces range anxiety significantly.

We really are not that far away from the 500 mile BEV. Lucid already makes a 500 mile EPA range BEV. Now the price just needs to come down, and it will. Without a doubt.

 

[ripperAZ]

My only response to this thread a is my epic trip from phoenix to San Diego in an early 21 GT PE my first Mach e. A year before I ever posted here and found you knuckleheads.

We leave Phoenix at 6 AM on a Friday morning on our way to San Diego for a fun time at our summer place on the beach. It’s hot and I’m jamming it and we’re having fun and about a mile outside of dateland. ……The entire dashboard lights up with stop safely now and we coast into Dateland Arizona hell remain there for 15 hours until my nephew saved us by driving from phoenix and taking us home.

Three tow trucks refused to touch the little pony. Ford commissions a twrecker to carry the poor little colt back to Phoenix 41 days before he ever roadworthy again and I sold his sorry ass for 15 grand more than I paid for him.

Dateland Arizona for 15 hours is not an adventure it’s the freaking twilight zone
If we didn’t have 40 years in, it probably would’ve been a marriage kind of ending experience lol
jes sayin.

 

[EELinneman]

My only response to this thread a is my epic trip from phoenix to San Diego in an early 21 GT PE my first Mach e. A year before I ever posted here and found you knuckleheads.

We leave Phoenix at 6 AM on a Friday morning on our way to San Diego for a fun time at our summer place on the beach. It’s hot and I’m jamming it and we’re having fun and about a mile outside of dateland. ……The entire dashboard lights up with stop safely now and we coast into Dateland Arizona hell remain there for 15 hours until my nephew saved us by driving from phoenix and taking us home.

Three tow trucks refused to touch the little pony. Ford commissions a twrecker to carry the poor little colt back to Phoenix 41 days before he ever roadworthy again and I sold his sorry ass for 15 grand more than I paid for him.

Dateland Arizona for 15 hours is not an adventure it’s the freaking twilight zone
If we didn’t have 40 years in, it probably would’ve been a marriage kind of ending experience lol
jes sayin.

In 1979, I broke down in Gila Bend, AZ on a Sunday late morning. Got to say, AZ has some of the finest wastelands in the US of A. No cell phones then, just pay phones and waiting. And, I was too young to even go to a bar.

 

[HuntingPudel]

<SNIP>
My dad had a 1968 Pontiac GTO that was assume, of course he would only get 8 gallons to the mile.

If the GTO had the standard 400 engine (i.e. not a Ram Air II or not a Bobcat car), it should get 15-16 mpg on the highway and around 9-10 in town. At least, all of the ‘68s I have owned or had friends who owned them have gotten that kind of mileage. The one Ram Air II car I knew of got crap mileage due to steep 4-series gears and being flogged all the time (but trailered everywhere to be flogged).

 

[kennethjk]

If the GTO had the standard 400 engine (i.e. not a Ram Air II or not a Bobcat car), it should get 15-16 mpg on the highway and around 9-10 in town. At least, all of the ‘68s I have owned or had friends who owned them have gotten that kind of mileage. The one Ram Air II car I knew of got crap mileage due to steep 4-series gears and being flogged all the time (but trailered everywhere to be flogged).

It had the standard 400 auto hurst on the floor. I was joking around about the 8 gallons to the mile but it was probably what you said in city traffic.

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