Took ownership today of my Mach E

[mkhuffman]

I spend a fair amount of time pre planning, charging in advance when I need to, just in case, being retired time is not as important to me and I leave more time than I need, just in case, a plan B

I was planning to drive to Florida and a friend of mine said I was crazy after all the reports of broken chargers. I explained to him that his ignorance has no bounds.

Maybe your friend is ignorant, but he doesn't sound like it to me. Personally I would be willing to take my car to Florida because it will be like camping - an adventure where I can demonstrate my resilience and ability to deal with hardships and unexpected challenges. It is why I actually look forward to storms that knock out the power, so I can use my generator! No storm can stop me!

But I am not normal. Your friend sounds normal to me. Like my wife. She has no desire to turn a trip to Florida into an adventure, man against nature kind of thing. She has no desire for a power killing storm to disrupt our lives. And most people are like your friend and my wife: they just want to get to Florida comfortably and without any drama.

And while taking long trips that require DCFC isn't a daily occurrence for most of us, we want our cars to be able to take us to Florida when we decide we want to drive there. Most people, me included, do not want to rent a car just to take that trip. We want to drive our own car, the car we like and we picked out because we like it. Not some piece of crap rental.

In a few years I believe most of the challenges of owning a BEV will be well overcome by the benefits. For now, however, it is still the wild, wild west and best for people who like to camp in tents (which my wife hates, BTW).

Unless you only want to drive it around your local area, always charging at home. In that case, it is hard to argue why a BEV isn't the best choice. It definitely is.

One final thought: if you can't keep your watch or phone charged, a BEV might not be the right choice either.

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[Reign of Ravens]

And while taking long trips that require DCFC isn't a daily occurrence for most of us, we want our cars to be able to take us to Florida when we decide we want to drive there. Most people, me included, do not want to rent a car just to take that trip. We want to drive our own car, the car we like and we picked out because we like it. Not some piece of crap rental.

I've done it both ways. The knee-jerk reaction is to want your own vehicle, because it's comfortable and familiar. Yet having also done long-distance drives with rentals (not always the economy-level - although that only ever happened by circumstance for me), as long as I have cruise control and some way to get at my music then I'm set. One thing that a rental can't help with is the desire to put your own vehicle to the test, and to make some memories with it. But that's throwing practicality out of the window for being sentimental.

I do think it's interesting how we talk about planning the trip as a downside now. It makes me reminisce a bit about how it used to be, that we'd pore over maps to figure out the best route, creating a travel itinerary... now you just enter a destination in your preferred GPS app and use various other apps to find gas stations or motels (or just rely on road signs, for interstate highway travel), jump in your car, and go. It goes to show how much technology has changed things over the past 25 years or so. I don't miss having to plan things out in advance.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Maybe your friend is ignorant, but he doesn't sound like it to me. Personally I would be willing to take my car to Florida because it will be like camping - an adventure where I can demonstrate my resilience and ability to deal with hardships and unexpected challenges. It is why I actually look forward to storms that knock out the power, so I can use my generator! No storm can stop me!

But I am not normal. Your friend sounds normal to me. Like my wife. She has no desire to turn a trip to Florida into an adventure, man against nature kind of thing. She has no desire for a power killing storm to disrupt our lives. And most people are like your friend and my wife: they just want to get to Florida comfortably and without any drama.

And while taking long trips that require DCFC isn't a daily occurrence for most of us, we want our cars to be able to take us to Florida when we decide we want to drive there. Most people, me included, do not want to rent a car just to take that trip. We want to drive our own car, the car we like and we picked out because we like it. Not some piece of crap rental.

In a few years I believe most of the challenges of owning a BEV will be well overcome by the benefits. For now, however, it is still the wild, wild west and best for people who like to camp in tents (which my wife hates, BTW).

Unless you only want to drive it around your local area, always charging at home. In that case, it is hard to argue why a BEV isn't the best choice. It definitely is.

One final thought: if you can't keep your watch or phone charged, a BEV might not be the right choice either.

Great post @mkhuffman . I'm more like you; adventure time! I'm quite good at keeping my watch and phone charged. My tablet too.

 

[kennethjk]

Maybe your friend is ignorant, but he doesn't sound like it to me. Personally I would be willing to take my car to Florida because it will be like camping - an adventure where I can demonstrate my resilience and ability to deal with hardships and unexpected challenges. It is why I actually look forward to storms that knock out the power, so I can use my generator! No storm can stop me!

But I am not normal. Your friend sounds normal to me. Like my wife. She has no desire to turn a trip to Florida into an adventure, man against nature kind of thing. She has no desire for a power killing storm to disrupt our lives. And most people are like your friend and my wife: they just want to get to Florida comfortably and without any drama.

And while taking long trips that require DCFC isn't a daily occurrence for most of us, we want our cars to be able to take us to Florida when we decide we want to drive there. Most people, me included, do not want to rent a car just to take that trip. We want to drive our own car, the car we like and we picked out because we like it. Not some piece of crap rental.

In a few years I believe most of the challenges of owning a BEV will be well overcome by the benefits. For now, however, it is still the wild, wild west and best for people who like to camp in tents (which my wife hates, BTW).

Unless you only want to drive it around your local area, always charging at home. In that case, it is hard to argue why a BEV isn't the best choice. It definitely is.

One final thought: if you can't keep your watch or phone charged, a BEV might not be the right choice either.

My friend is an attorney yet he is ignorant, of EV’s. He reads one article and claims to be an expert or knowledgeable. Sorry that doesn’t work. He can’t screw a light bulb in. The last thing I would do is take advice,other than legal advice, from him.

as someone who has driven the cannonball run from NY to Florida non stop many times, I don’t fear driving using an EV, I wouldn’t do it in a day, I would take my time and do it in 2 or 3 days. When I was working I wouldn’t do that but now time is irrelevant to me. All depends on each persons situation and tolerance level. Most people probably wouldn’t want to deal with the stress but most people don’t buy EV’s and the ones that do are possibly a little more adventurous.

my wife would be unhappy if we stopped and couldn’t charge up or have to wait but that’s life. She panicks if her battery gets to 50% . I charge more often than needed, this way if something doesn’t work out, I have more flexibility. I figure doing 500 miles in a day is quite reasonable in an EV.

I have read on this forum , numerous times, things aren’t as bad as you read here, why, because this is a forum for people to come and complain.

the extra time it takes to plan out a trip isn’t really that much but I enjoy it, so no big deal to me and the many people on this forum who have taken trips.

there are real issues with fast chargers and I don’t minimize them. I have traveled to Cape Cod, Bethlehem, West Chester PA, Albany and other places and have yet to have a bad experience charging. I am sure I will. A lot more needs to be done, covered chargers, chargers that are consistently reliable, in better areas, like at Pilots, Loves, Buck-ees etc. all is coming. I also think some areas with greater saturation of EV’s or minimal ownership may be having more issues than the areas I have visited. Southern LA is very saturated with EV’s, not so my area but enough that the chargers we have are ok.

I have more of an issue with the HVBJB and the possibility of failing far away from home. Some people don’t see that as a problem. each person has their own fears I guess.

it is a great vehicle around town and longer distances because I can very easily do 260 miles round trip in a day without having any anxiety. It’s still a very good car for real long distance trips, just take some Xanax and let someone else drive.

 

[HuntingPudel]

I remember planning out my first really long trip with an ICE vehicle to a destination with which I was not familiar. Mapping out (with paper maps) the major arteries. Writing down step-by-step directions off and back onto the major arteries for lodging and food. Then going on the trip and doing on the fly refueling stops and on the fly re-routes when a restaurant wasn’t there any more. That took much more pre-departure planning than loading ABRP, throwing in the destination, setting the refueling points, and checking the EA and PlugShare apps on the day of departure to make sure the chargers were good.

Disclaimer: I do not road trip much any more. I mostly drive to/from work and charge at home with a PV array that’s way too big for us so I do not have to worry about on the road DCFC. I guess this makes any long trip an adventure.

 

[a dubb]

I have mixed feelings about this one.

On one hand, if you live in an apartment and don't work at a place where you have chargers, then yes, it can be a problem. I had my Leaf for a few months before I had my house and lived that life, hunting for a public level 2 charger each weekend and then making a small event out of it while waiting for my car to charge. I'd see other people sitting in their cars, working on laptops and the like. That took dedication and is not something I could see most people doing. It was a bit stressful if I couldn't find a spot. But then I started working at a place that had chargers for us to use for free, and it just made so much sense to charge at work.

Long distance driving would have been a nightmare in the Leaf. It would potentially be stressful with the Mach-E. There was a time in my life where I'd make a 640-mile round trip drive every other weekend, and an electric vehicle might have been an issue for me then. But now, how often am I making drives like that? Barely ever. If I had to, I'd probably rent a gas-powered car. The big question is, how often are most people doing it?

An analogy is to wonder if a commuter vehicle is fine for most people, instead of a pick-up truck. After all, what if you need to haul something huge, or move large loads? And sure, there are some people who really are using the flatbed of their truck weekly, if not daily. They need that truck. But for most everybody else, you rent a U-Haul van or truck for what you need, and that's it. I don't need to buy a van or truck for those once-every-few-years events.

As chargers become more prevalent, and perhaps as the electrical systems improve (Ford's system is decent, but you look at Kia's and Porsche's platforms for what is class-leading... and a number of proposed battery technologies are poised to cut times down even further in the future) it'll become a non-issue. In that regard I agree that we're all early adopters right now. I'm just not sure that EVs aren't ready for mainstream as they are, right now.


The political nature of it is really unfortunate. When people push back with the idea that BEV is worse, environmentally, than ICE - especially when it's out of the blue - then you know they're just looking to be downers about it and are parroting talking points. Most people never talked about the environmental impact of ICE-driven vehicles before. Emissions as a whole, yes, but I don't recall hearing people talking about specific vehicles, or even classes of vehicles (petrol vs diesel), with such fervor.

In our time of divisive politics, I get that it's just another thing to divide people on. But I do sometimes wonder if ICE drivers have given thought to what the expansion of BEVs on the road really means. Because there is a threat there: fewer ICE vehicles means less money going to gas stations. Once the gas stations start to close down, ICE drivers will begin to suffer range anxiety issues. But their range anxiety will likely be worse, because unlike BEVs, they won't have the recourse of being able to refuel at home, or any place where there's an electrical outlet. The next 5-10 years are going to be really interesting.

So I am pretty dumb what is an ICE vehicle ?

 

[kennethjk]

Internal combustion engine

 

[a dubb]

as someone who has had the car for 9 months, I can say that a lot of the range anxiety is a bit overrated. People are curious about the car and the biggest complaints or negative comments about EV’s are from those that have no idea how they actually work. After explaining, I have had 2 friends say, they are going to start looking into EV’s. They know it’s the future.

how many long trips does someone really take in the course of a month. I have taken numerous trips of over 120 miles each way and so far, have always found fast chargers available without an issue. Of course it all depends on where you live. There is only one set of chargers in NJ that have people complained about being busy all the time and I believe those chargers work. It is true that many places have chargers that do not work and that is a real issue. Just need to use PlugShare and plan ahead and have a plan B

there is a but, I spend a fair amount of time pre planning, charging in advance when I need to, just in case, being retired time is not as important to me and I leave more time than I need, just in case, a plan B

I was planning to drive to Florida and a friend of mine said I was crazy after all the reports of broken chargers. I explained to him that his ignorance has no bounds.

yes there are challenges for sure but you just have to read about all the people who have taken long trips. Some have problems but more seem to do it without a real nightmare.

I won’t be driving to Florida as I am more concerned with the HVBJB issue and doing stuck 500 miles from home Than I am about chargers.

have fun with the car and if you drive on a long trip, just plan ahead.

totally agree .. it’s funny how when I had to communicate with a friend I couldn’t really even say how far a tank of gas got me .. so I really don’t think it’s that easy to compare the EV keeps it real honest .. tracking miles per gallon for me would be about as legit as using my weight on my drivers license.. maybe I’m the only one who never used trip calculators every time I fueled up my car .. and I am definitely guilty of phone charging but I think I love plugging in my car

 

[phil]

Once the gas stations start to close down, ICE drivers will begin to suffer range anxiety issues.

Once they start to close???

No, that's far from the reality. Perhaps when the number of gas stations drops below 1% of the current number, the last few remaining ICEV drivers will begin to experience some minor inconvenience. There are over 100,000 gas stations in the US. Many an ICEV can go more than 500 highway miles before refueling. And refueling an empty tank takes 5 minutes, not an hour.

True fact: The number of gas stations has been declining steadily for decades. Range anxiety is nowhere in sight. Range anxiety is exclusively an EV thing.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/qui...cations,and shrinking gasoline profit margins.

 

[phil]

Unless you only want to drive it around your local area, always charging at home. In that case, it is hard to argue why a BEV isn't the best choice.

It's actually easy to argue - BEVs cost significantly more than equivalent ICEVs.

But aside from cost, I agree with you. An EV can be a very nice for local transportation. If you have a garage to charge it in.

 

[Reign of Ravens]

True fact: The number of gas stations has been declining steadily for decades. Range anxiety is nowhere in sight. Range anxiety is exclusively an EV thing.

I had range anxiety twice in an ICE vehicle. Once was when I was stuck in horrible traffic, literally watching my fuel gauge go down while idling. It occurred to me that I might run out of gas before I could even inch my way to a gas station. Another was a long stretch in Pennsylvania - I think I-84? There was a stretch of something like 40 miles with no service stations. I passed by the last service exit and then noted that my fuel was lower than I was comfortable with. Having seen other cars stranded and getting gas from the friendly red canisters delivered by roadside assistance before, I felt a bit nervous about being able to get through that stretch. I made it without needing to call roadside assistance.

Range anxiety with EVs is real, but it's mostly because people don't have a good sense about how far they can go, or where charging stations are. I've been driving EVs for about three years now and I've never done a long-distance drive requiring multiple fast-charging stations. I have a better sense now about things like charge times and how far I can go under various conditions, but I might still struggle a bit. I don't mind stopping for longer to charge, but I don't have a good sense of how crowded the stations would be. All of these things will become non-issues in the future; we're in the growing pains phase right now.

But gas stations? Most people don't notice or mind when a gas station closes. And in the short term, as people switch over to electric vehicles, they probably still won't notice too much. There won't be lines. But margins are thin at gas stations, and when people need to hunt for gas stations like they do chargers, it's going to be a problem. I suspect that things will move quickly when it does happen. There'll likely be a confluence of factors, from readily available electric vehicles for cheap (whether because cheap models are finally available or because the second-hand market becomes robust); more widespread acceptance (because enough people will either know or have ridden in an electric vehicle, and the criticisms will go by the wayside); EVs becoming more desirable (cost of gas continues to rise and upkeep for ICE vehicles is higher); and people fearing being caught holding the bag (acknowledging that the days are numbered for ICE vehicles, and people wanting to get what they can for them, leading to a glut of second-hand ICE vehicles, plummeting prices, and more panic selling and less purchasing). Unless gas stations have converted to have chargers, and assuming they still want to truck in fuel and maintain their tanks and pumps, the rate of gas station closures will increase - and that will only further the cycle.

 

[SWO]

There are always people who resent evolution. This same naysaying occurred with the shift from wooden wheels to pneumatic tires.

There are middle/working-class folks who are justifiably angry that they are subsidizing luxury vehicles for other folks. It's a rational reaction. Instead of getting mad myself, I got a piece of the pie - but not everyone has that option.

 

[SWO]

Maybe your friend is ignorant, but he doesn't sound like it to me. Personally I would be willing to take my car to Florida because it will be like camping - an adventure where I can demonstrate my resilience and ability to deal with hardships and unexpected challenges. It is why I actually look forward to storms that knock out the power, so I can use my generator! No storm can stop me!

But I am not normal. Your friend sounds normal to me. Like my wife. She has no desire to turn a trip to Florida into an adventure, man against nature kind of thing. She has no desire for a power killing storm to disrupt our lives. And most people are like your friend and my wife: they just want to get to Florida comfortably and without any drama.

And while taking long trips that require DCFC isn't a daily occurrence for most of us, we want our cars to be able to take us to Florida when we decide we want to drive there. Most people, me included, do not want to rent a car just to take that trip. We want to drive our own car, the car we like and we picked out because we like it. Not some piece of crap rental.

In a few years I believe most of the challenges of owning a BEV will be well overcome by the benefits. For now, however, it is still the wild, wild west and best for people who like to camp in tents (which my wife hates, BTW).

Unless you only want to drive it around your local area, always charging at home. In that case, it is hard to argue why a BEV isn't the best choice. It definitely is.

One final thought: if you can't keep your watch or phone charged, a BEV might not be the right choice either.

I joke with my wife that I like long trips in the MachE because it's like Oregon Trail. I have not died of dysentery yet, but I enjoy the logistics/planning aspect of it. I might even be a little sad when there's DCFC at every exit and you don't have to plan out road trips.

 

[phil]

I had range anxiety twice in an ICE vehicle. Once was when I was stuck in horrible traffic, literally watching my fuel gauge go down while idling. It occurred to me that I might run out of gas before I could even inch my way to a gas station. Another was a long stretch in Pennsylvania - I think I-84? There was a stretch of something like 40 miles with no service stations. I passed by the last service exit and then noted that my fuel was lower than I was comfortable with. Having seen other cars stranded and getting gas from the friendly red canisters delivered by roadside assistance before, I felt a bit nervous about being able to get through that stretch. I made it without needing to call roadside assistance.

Range anxiety with EVs is real, but it's mostly because people don't have a good sense about how far they can go, or where charging stations are. I've been driving EVs for about three years now and I've never done a long-distance drive requiring multiple fast-charging stations. I have a better sense now about things like charge times and how far I can go under various conditions, but I might still struggle a bit. I don't mind stopping for longer to charge, but I don't have a good sense of how crowded the stations would be. All of these things will become non-issues in the future; we're in the growing pains phase right now.

But gas stations? Most people don't notice or mind when a gas station closes. And in the short term, as people switch over to electric vehicles, they probably still won't notice too much. There won't be lines. But margins are thin at gas stations, and when people need to hunt for gas stations like they do chargers, it's going to be a problem. I suspect that things will move quickly when it does happen. There'll likely be a confluence of factors, from readily available electric vehicles for cheap (whether because cheap models are finally available or because the second-hand market becomes robust); more widespread acceptance (because enough people will either know or have ridden in an electric vehicle, and the criticisms will go by the wayside); EVs becoming more desirable (cost of gas continues to rise and upkeep for ICE vehicles is higher); and people fearing being caught holding the bag (acknowledging that the days are numbered for ICE vehicles, and people wanting to get what they can for them, leading to a glut of second-hand ICE vehicles, plummeting prices, and more panic selling and less purchasing). Unless gas stations have converted to have chargers, and assuming they still want to truck in fuel and maintain their tanks and pumps, the rate of gas station closures will increase - and that will only further the cycle.

I agree with much of this. I actually run out of gas about once every ten years, and even then, don't get much range anxiety - because I can simply walk or get a ride to a gas station, bring back a can of gas, and I'm back in business. With an EV, it's generally gonna be a tow and a giant hassle.

I used to take the same drive thru Pennsylvania, except I was on I-80 and drove the entire length of the state. I remember thinking I might have made a mistake passing a service station without gassing up!

It's not yet clear whether electric will take over the auto industry (today's BEVs are pretty inefficient, lugging giant heavy batteries everywhere they go), but it seems likely that ICEVs will largely die out over the next 50-100 years, and be replaced by something better. The end may come quickly - that last 1% of gas stations - but it will take decades to get to that point.

 

[phil]

I joke with my wife that I like long trips in the MachE because it's like Oregon Trail. I have not died of dysentery yet, but I enjoy the logistics/planning aspect of it. I might even be a little sad when there's DCFC at every exit and you don't have to plan out road trips.

My sympathies to your long-suffering wife.

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