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NoMoShocks

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After seeing this video, not liking the spaghetti of rubber hoses and learning there is a rather conventional radiator. My Chevy Bold does not employ so many hoses going every which way. Imagine the cost when it is time to replace all the hoses and the conventional radiator may need servicing every three years. What do you all think?
 

SteveUk

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I thought it only needed minimal maintenance / hardware and that would be a coolant change every 200k miles?

There appears to be a lot in there that could and for some will fail at some point. Depressing.

I thought the engine was cooled in a cutting edge way not a standard radiator!
 

SteveUk

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There are 2 coolant reservoirs - are the both connected so you use the top easy access one to fill it up or what is the 2nd one for?
 

MailGuy

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Chevy took a different approach with the Bolt. There are still a lot of similarities with the Mach E however. The Bolt clearly benefits from FWD only optimization and employs three distinct loops for cabin heat, battery and motor/electronics. The Bolt of course has one less motor to keep cool.

The Bolt uses a traditional radiator for the electronics/motor loop. It also has actuated shutters like the Mach E, but they're not visible externally. The battery loop is integrated into the AC system via a chiller to help cool the battery which adds to electric consumption to drive the compressor and condenser fan. It also has three electric pumps to move the coolant around.

It seems that Ford has engineered coolant loops that are common to all functions which means you can likely use heat generated by the components to warm the cabin, presumably reducing the need for resistance heating. That's not possible on the Bolt. The Mach E seems to have an additional pump, presumably because there's an extra motor. It's likely they're using the motors to direct the flow of coolant to where it's most needed within a common system. I don't know if there's an integrated chiller for battery cooling.

When I first saw these loops in a factory video, I also was concerned but assumed that Ford engineered a low PSI system with lower operating temperatures that would create less stress on the components leading to longer life. The above video seems to suggest however that the Mach E cooling system is engineered to support up to 21 PSI while the Bolt's operates at 5 PSI. I find this surprising given that low PSI systems have been in use in most hybrids and other EV's for years.

The Ford system to the eye looks more complicated due to the addition of RWD and routing of multiple loops into a common system. However, the system will likely draw less power from the battery to keep the battery, components and cabin comfy. It seems they've optimized the system to recapture as much heat as possible, which would likely require more routing of coolant.
 

Kamuelaflyer

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The Mach-e service schedule has no required maintenance on the cooling system beyond check hoses every 10,000 miles. Contrast that with the automatic transmission. That requires fluid change every 150,000 miles.
 

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what's a chiller integration? .... the battery? and aircon?
 
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generaltso

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It seems that Ford has engineered coolant loops that are common to all functions which means you can likely use heat generated by the components to warm the cabin, presumably reducing the need for resistance heating.
In one of the many videos posted here somewhere, Ford said that the MME does have the ability to scavenge heat from the motors and battery to use for cabin heating, which means you may be able to leave the E-Heat turned off when it's not super cold outside. I wondered how they were doing that without a heat pump. I guess this is how. 👍
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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In one of the many videos posted here somewhere, Ford said that the MME does have the ability to scavenge heat from the motors and battery to use for cabin heating, which means you may be able to leave the E-Heat turned off when it's not super cold outside. I wondered how they were doing that without a heat pump. I guess this is how. 👍
So wait after all of the bellyaching from some folks around "OMG NO HEAT PUMP FORD IS SCREWED!!!!!1!!!!1!!!1!!2!!!!11!!!" there may be something that actually is efficiently heating the cabin under "not super cold" conditions (aka "'good for heat pump' conditions") without the complexity of a failure-prone octovalve?

huh.

it's almost like Ford is a car company that has made cars before.
 

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Normal Scheduled Maintenance1
Inspect steering linkage, ball joints, suspension and tie- rod ends.
Inspect wheels and related components for abnormal noise, wear, looseness or drag.
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1 Do not exceed one year or 10,000 mi (16,000 km) between service intervals.
1 Brake Fluid Maintenance
Every 3 Years
Change brake fluid.2
1 Perform this maintenance item every 3 years. Do not exceed the designated time for the interval.
2 Brake fluid servicing requires special equipment available at your authorized dealer.
Other Maintenance Items
Every 20,000 mi (32,000 km) Replace cabin air filter.1
At 10 years or 150,000 mi Change the transmission fluid. (240,000 km)
At 200,000 mi (322,000 km) Change the coolant.2
1 Cabin air filter life is dependent on exposure to dusty and dirty conditions. Vehicles operated in these conditions require frequent inspection and replacement of the cabin air filter.
2 Initial replacement at 10 years or 200,000 mi (322,000 km), then every 5 years or 100,000 mi (160,000 km).

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SnBGC

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After seeing this video, not liking the spaghetti of rubber hoses and learning there is a rather conventional radiator. My Chevy Bold does not employ so many hoses going every which way. Imagine the cost when it is time to replace all the hoses and the conventional radiator may need servicing every three years. What do you all think?
I think this is completely expected. Ford has been doing it like this with their BEVs for quite a while now and it works well and has proven to be robust and long lasting. The conventional radiator is good.....nothing wrong with that design and it's effective. The Bolt has lots of plumbing as well, and multiple radiators and multiple reservoirs.

The Ford Mach E appears to utilize an Integrated Drive Module (IDM) for the rear motor so the cooling system for that item can be incorporated into the casing where practical. That reduces the need for as much elaborate plumbing out back.

The forward motor and associated parts appear to be individual components so that is why you see so much plumbing to connect each of the items that require cooling. Even RWD models will still have a bunch of stuff up front that will need cooling. What you see in that video is fairly similar to how the Focus Electric is plumbed. That system was designed by a leading Tier One supplier with quite a bit of experience with EV architecture. It is a low pressure system so the stresses on the components is greatly reduced.

It may not be readily apparent, but there are multiple cooling loops in the design. I believe there are at least 3 loops and likely a 4th. I expect they will be able to function independently or with other loops as needed. That is why the plumbing looks so complicated. I am a bit surprised to see two reservoirs yet still appears to be only one radiator. Maybe there is another radiator that I can't see yet......that would make sense for the extra reservoir. That indicates two independent systems to me. I am curious to learn why they chose that route on this vehicle. I suspect it's related to the very large battery pack (compared to previous models) but that is just a guess.

The most problematic component is likely to be the TXVs (Thermostatic Expansion Valves). Should be at least 2 and might even be a 3rd in this system so I am glad to see they are very accessible just in case any service is needed. Majority of owners aren't likely to experience any issues....but as with any machine, there are isolated cases where service is required. From what I can see so far, it looks like Ford has designed the components to be accessible.

I hope this puts your mind at ease.
 
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MailGuy

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what's a chiller integration? .... the battery? and aircon?
It's an evaporator placed in the coolant loop to cool the liquid coolant the same as an evaporator cools the air passing over it in an air conditioner.

I would imagine this is integrated to be preferential to prioritize coolant flow into the battery alone since that's where most of the heat is generated. I wouldn't be surprised if there's also an auxiliary resistant heater in the same path like in the Bolt. That would help bring the battery up to temperature more quickly in cold weather. The other component cooling requirements are probably satisfied by the radiator and/or cabin heating. I would really be interested in seeing a shop manual on this configuration since I have no plans to tear mine apart and the plastic obscures everything. I guess I'll wait for John Kelly at Weber state to tear it apart for me :cool:.
 

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This is one of the best threads! There are others which are trivial and silly whereas this one provides a high standard of valuable information. Cheers.
Just you wait, its only a matter of time.

What else is everyone going to do while they wait for their cars???
 



 









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