DBC

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OK, on a serious note: The Mach-e 12v battery will be much smaller than you might expect. Why? As noted, it doesn't have to "crank" the Mach-e. I would also expect 7+ years of life out of it.
Yes, you're right that you likely only need 100W or so to get the computer running. But battery life depends on many things. Given that you can't get into the MME if the 12V goes flat, so even a portable charger won't help if the car is locked, I'd probably replace it more rather than less often.
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RonTCat

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This strikes me as a dumb question. When it comes to infrastructure the best design is the one that works. Elegant software is usually better. Elegant plumbing? Never matters. Without ever seeing a picture of either, if you asked me what to expect, I'd say the Tesla would be more elegant, less functional, and less reliable whereas the Ford would be slightly kludgy, functional, and reliable. If this is the case, given that you are not looking at any of this, Ford would be the clear winner.

IMO Tesla's advantage is more in the power electronics.
Agree, Tesla has combined some of the individual power electronic pieces of most systems into a single module. They clearly have a design lead here.
 

jlauro

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Agree, Tesla has combined some of the individual power electronic pieces of most systems into a single module. They clearly have a design lead here.
Depends on the goal. If it's lower manufacturing costs, then yes. If it's for higher reliability with less of a single point of frailer (ie: one function being down doesn't make the vehicle inoperable), then Ford clearly has a design lead here. (Unless that one combined part is more reliable than each of the individual parts)
 

Raymondjram

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I thought it only needed minimal maintenance / hardware and that would be a coolant change every 200k miles?

There appears to be a lot in there that could and for some will fail at some point. Depressing.

I thought the engine was cooled in a cutting edge way not a standard radiator!
The electric systems will never get as hot as in an ICE so the pressures are lower and the hoses will last the life of the vehicle. I have changed many damaged hoses in past cars, including two radiators. I expect to never changing any hoses here. Not depressing at all!

"I thought the engine was cooled in a cutting edge way not a standard radiator!" BTW, where is that "engine" you are describing??
 

Raymondjram

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Yes, you're right that you likely only need 100W or so to get the computer running. But battery life depends on many things. Given that you can't get into the MME if the 12V goes flat, so even a portable charger won't help if the car is locked, I'd probably replace it more rather than less often.
I was explained in a different topic (I asked if there is a mechanical backup to open the door) that the doors have capacitors that store more than enough power to press the button and open them if the 12V battery fails. So you can "get into the MME if the 12V goes flat". The door key panel may use that same capacitor power source to unlock the driver door.
 


jlauro

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I was explained in a different topic (I asked if there is a mechanical backup to open the door) that the doors have capacitors that store more than enough power to press the button and open them if the 12V battery fails. So you can "get into the MME if the 12V goes flat". The door key panel may use that same capacitor power source to unlock the driver door.
You realize capacitors typically only work once without being recharged. What if you don't realize that and close the door...
 

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Which one has better design and wiring? Model Y to me.
Screen Shot 2021-01-08 at 9.43.47 AM.png
Screen Shot 2021-01-08 at 9.44.43 AM.png
The Model Y's heat pump packaging puts all the coolant lines except 2 into the Octovalve on the back side of that refrigerant manifold (behind the block with the green band around it), and the laid down radiator makes it look a lot neater the more forward you get. The Y also has no refrigerant lines to the chiller or water-cooled condenser because they're directly bolted to the heat pump refrigerant manifold. It's spaghetti behind there, but under the "frunk" itself it's a lot cleaner.
 

BlueMach

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You realize capacitors typically only work once without being recharged. What if you don't realize that and close the door...
If you don't realize that the car is dead when you get out of it? You didn't notice all lights go out, the screens die, etc before you opened the door? Seems like a pretty rare edge case. Plus capacitors can be designed for multiple uses, Continental's e-latch capacitor is.
 

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You realize capacitors typically only work once without being recharged. What if you don't realize that and close the door...
Probably won’t be able to close the door. While the capacitor will open the door it probably won’t retract the rod after you finish opening it.
 

ChasingCoral

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OK, on a serious note: The Mach-e 12v battery will be much smaller than you might expect. Why? As noted, it doesn't have to "crank" the Mach-e. I would also expect 7+ years of life out of it.

I would put the size somewhere between a "typical" car/truck battery and a motorcycle battery.

Folks like @ChasingCoral might have seen one "in person", so they might be able to comment.
It’s about the size of a compact car battery.
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machefan

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It's on all US versions and probably all NA versions I'd guess. There's an issue with the emergency release mechanism I think. NTHSA standards have 3 requirements for how far a trunk lid needs to open depending upon vehicle speed. There's not a legal issue with frunks per se as Porsche has a large frunk on several models and those all have electronic releases via key fob etc. Somehow I think the divider was a stopgap while whatever the issue was got resolved. I recall reading somewhere in the 17.8 quadrillion posts here that once Ford was successful in resolving the issues, remote opening of the frunk would be enabled and dealers could remove the dividers for us (if we want).

Since we have neither children of the age to worry about getting locked in things nor grandchildren, it's coming out pretty quickly when I get it.
What about kitty in your Avatar pic?

I learned something from this thread - woo hoo!

The frunk divider is there to stop smuggling, I mean little ones from getting trapped inside.
 

Kamuelaflyer

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What about kitty in your Avatar pic?

I learned something from this thread - woo hoo!

The frunk divider is there to stop smuggling, I mean little ones from getting trapped inside.
1. The princess rules the house. She doesn't roam among nonhousehold staff humans. (She used to be a feral and has no desire to ever go outside again beyond her Catio)

2. Serious comment: The frunk is tested with a standard-sized toddler doll. If it can fit in (I forgot the dimensions and weight about 17 seconds after I looked it up), then the lid on a trunk needs to have an escape mechanism. That mechanism needs to open the lid by certain amounts depending upon car speed. I suspect one of those criteria could not be met for some reason. Hence the divider. Standard sized toddler doll cannot crawl in it now. This is pure speculation on my part though and doesn't entirely jive with the very few comments Ford has made. I think they said something about technical compliance or something. I honestly believe the remote opening and the like will all be resolved via an OTA update at some point.
 

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If you don't realize that the car is dead when you get out of it? You didn't notice all lights go out, the screens die, etc before you opened the door? Seems like a pretty rare edge case. Plus capacitors can be designed for multiple uses, Continental's e-latch capacitor is.
I don't think the capacitor is even needed on egress. The switch is mechanical if you pull it back far enough.... I think.
 

All Hat No Cattle

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It’s about the size of a compact car battery.
The battery in the picture is made in China.

RE: 7 years.

Does anyone have info on the reliability of Chinese vehicle batteries?

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