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Update on Mach-E launch progress from engineering friends in Mexico

trutolife27

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I work for ford and have some engineer friends on the launch team down in mexico for the Mach-e. He sent this to me.

Is the mach-e is going as scheduled for production or behind? Ordered one was just wondering how things are going with the virus? thanks


Entire program was delayed 10 weeks, should start shipping to the U.S. late November after we achieve OKTB. I ordered one too, very exciting! Launch is going well though, strong team.
 

dbsb3233

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That seems to be a logical ship-out timeframe for production starting in earnest on Oct 26. I assume they queue up in the parking lot for a few weeks as they prepared batches for transport in the various ways they get shipped. (I assume mostly by train to the US.)

That presumably means December for arrival at US dealerships of the initial batches.
 
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trutolife27

trutolife27

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Well you’ll be getting +14 hp and +9 ft-lbs of torque over original estimates, and it charges about 10% faster too. You gotta get a 240V outlet for the level 2 charger, trust me. Bill Collins Ford is gonna let me know when we have the deal worked out with Amazon to install those. Battery range still looking at about 270 mi on a full charge, our Intelligent Range is very accurate. I got a First Edition, basically the same thing.


I’m actually in trim on this one and it’s going well, nothing new to us. Liftgate is installed in trim because it’s plastic.

I saw the Amazon deal for install that's nice


Exactly..no more gas stations. It’s our first customer-centric design, first 100% animal-free vehicle (synthetic leather, ActiveX), first vehicle with over-the-air updates so everything can update from home (not just Sync), first vehicle with Sync4, it has grill shutters on the outer surface to attack cavity drag (only a few cars in the world have them), and it’ll be hands-free on the highway later next year. It’s kick-ass

very similar Tesla model y then ?


That’s our main competitor in the BEV segment, everything is benchmarked to Tesla
There are Tesla’s in the PDC garage that we looked at for guidance you could say. We benchmark on every program.


I ordered within the very first hour you could & Im #7670
We hit 50k sometime around the end of last year...but people cancel orders, don’t go thru, etc..so it’s slightly misleading. Send me your VIN when you have it and I’ll get it moved up.

Thanks. yeah alot of people never put there 500 deposit and had dealer confirm your right


Yep so unless the dealer hits the button that number doesn’t mean much, I know that Bill Collins lost a couple
That number includes the Mach-Es for Europe too. Actually most of them are going to Europe or Califorina.
 

dbsb3233

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and it charges about 10% faster too
This has been a point of conversation here, regarding whether that's really the case or just selective slicing.

Are you referring to the reported "increase" of charging from 47 miles in 10 minutes to 61 miles? It appeared to many of us that all that is is a switch from reporting the AVERAGE of the whole charge curve to reporting just the FIRST 10 MINUTES of the charge curve (where batteries always charge faster). That was suggested in one of the footnotes, and seemed to be confirmed by the retention of the "45 minutes to do a 10-80% charge" statement even after the supposed increase.
 

dbsb3233

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We hit 50k sometime around the end of last year
Do you mean # of vehicles, or reservation#? Res# 10050000 was hit in March. It would be quite surprising if there were more vehicles reserved than the reservation# suggests. Many of us felt it was just the opposite - that there were likely gaps in the numbers, suggesting even 10050000 doesn't represent a full 50,000 vehicles.
 

timbop

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This has been a point of conversation here, regarding whether that's really the case or just selective slicing.

Are you referring to the reported "increase" of charging from 47 miles in 10 minutes to 61 miles? It appeared to many of us that all that is is a switch from reporting the AVERAGE of the whole charge curve to reporting just the FIRST 10 MINUTES of the charge curve (where batteries always charge faster). That was suggested in one of the footnotes, and seemed to be confirmed by the retention of the "45 minutes to do a 10-80% charge" statement even after the supposed increase.
I wonder if the statement might be alluding to the fact that there is an 11% buffer, so the conversion of kwh to miles has improved by 10% when charging off of AC.
 

dbsb3233

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I wonder if the statement might be alluding to the fact that there is an 11% buffer, so the conversion of kwh to miles has improved by 10% when charging off of AC.
I suppose if one assumed that the original numbers were based on the full battery having no reserve. But I never assumed that. Particularly for charging, which is really just about adding kWh.

Now, if the actual miles per kWh average changes, then it's a real improvement.
 

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Well you’ll be getting +14 hp and +9 ft-lbs of torque over original estimates, and it charges about 10% faster too.

Battery range still looking at about 270 mi on a full charge
, our Intelligent Range is very accurate. I got a First Edition, basically the same thing.
The 10% faster thing still doesn't make a ton of sense to me because it takes 45 minutes to get to 80%.

270 mi real world range sounds great to me, especially if that's at freeway speeds. That would match the Tesla Model Y which gets about the same range but with EPA 322 miles.
 

timbop

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The 10% faster thing still doesn't make a ton of sense to me because it takes 45 minutes to get to 80%.
I think he's referring to AC charging and not DCFC. Their initial references to AC charging said 23 mi/hr on a 32 AMP 240VAC circuit (7.68kwh = 32A * 240v * 1hr). That time assumes a 3 mi/kwh ratio (23 mi = 7.68 kwh * 3.0 mi/kwh). When you calculate the true mi/kwh rate accounting for the buffer on a RWD you get 3.38 mi/kwh (230mi / 68kwh), which means a 32 amp 240VAC charger actually puts on 26 miles per hour (7.68kwh * 3.38 mi/kwh).
 
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dbsb3233

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270 mi real world range sounds great to me, especially if that's at freeway speeds. That would match the Tesla Model Y which gets about the same range but with EPA 322 miles.
That would be great, but I expect it's just an overall (mostly city) driving estimate. I'm anticipating that 270 being more like 220 @ 70 MPH.

And that's counting full battery range (0-100%). That's about 175 on a more realistic 10-90% SOC window. Minus climate control loss.
 

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This has been a point of conversation here, regarding whether that's really the case or just selective slicing.

Are you referring to the reported "increase" of charging from 47 miles in 10 minutes to 61 miles? It appeared to many of us that all that is is a switch from reporting the AVERAGE of the whole charge curve to reporting just the FIRST 10 MINUTES of the charge curve (where batteries always charge faster). That was suggested in one of the footnotes, and seemed to be confirmed by the retention of the "45 minutes to do a 10-80% charge" statement even after the supposed increase.
I am in your camp on this as well. Selective slicing is the most likely thing here. Newcomers to EV market in upcoming months/years are going to heavily weigh metrics like how much range can be added in 10 minutes of DC charging. Many of us understand how meaningless that number is but newcomers might take a different view. If so, then Ford is smart to peak the curve in the first 10 minutes if possible.
 

dbsb3233

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I think he's referring to AC charging and not DCFC. Their initial references to AC charging said 23 mi/hr on a 32 AMP 240VAC circuit (7.68kw = 32A * 240v). That time assumes a 3 mi/kwh ratio (23 mi = 7.68 kw * 3.0 mi/kwh). When you calculate the true mi/kwh rate accounting for the buffer on a RWD you get 3.38 mi/kwh (230mi / 68kwh), which means a 32 amp 240VAC charger actually puts on 26 miles per hour (7.68kw * 3.38 mi/kwh).
I don't think that's it. I think Ford had already accounted for their battery buffer in the initial calculations.

They originally announced 22 miles per hour added @ 32A 240V charging. That actually went down a little (to 21) on the updated specs last month...

Nov-2019:
https://electrek.co/2019/11/18/ford-mustang-mach-e-home-charging-on-par-with-tesla/

Jun-2020 update:
https://www.ford.com/buy-site-wide-content/overlays/mach-e-overlays/mach-e-faq/
 

dbsb3233

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I am in your camp on this as well. Selective slicing is the most likely thing here. Newcomers to EV market in upcoming months/years are going to heavily weigh metrics like how much range can be added in 10 minutes of DC charging. Many of us understand how meaningless that number is but newcomers might take a different view. If so, then Ford is smart to peak the curve in the first 10 minutes if possible.
It's a confusing concept for newbies (as it was for me initially), but even trickier to explain in a marketing ad without wasting a full paragraph of space.

It's also very frustrating, because it's just the opposite of how people usually refuel. In an ICE car, we fill to 100% all the time and drive in the 25-100% range almost exclusively. Which is natural because it leaves plenty of reserve in the tank for unexpected detours.

But in a BEV, the fastest charging comes when running the battery down to 10% or less (i.e. nervous time). And gets very slow (and expensive at EA pricing) above ~75%. That's not the best marketing pitch, so they're staying vague.
 
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timbop

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I don't think that's it. I think Ford had already accounted for their battery buffer in the initial calculations.

They originally announced 22 miles per hour added @ 32A 240V charging. That actually went down a little (to 21) on the updated specs last month...

Nov-2019:
https://electrek.co/2019/11/18/ford-mustang-mach-e-home-charging-on-par-with-tesla/

Jun-2020 update:
https://www.ford.com/buy-site-wide-content/overlays/mach-e-overlays/mach-e-faq/
OK, then we'll have to ask @trutolife27 to have his friend explain that statement about charging speed improving.
 

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That would be great, but I expect it's just an overall (mostly city) driving estimate. I'm anticipating that 270 being more like 220 @ 70 MPH.

And that's counting full battery range (0-100%). That's about 175 on a more realistic 10-90% SOC window. Minus climate control loss.
It's possible that Ford is being conservative with the range like Hyundai, Kia, or Porsche.

70mph range tests by Tom Moloughney
259mi EPA Bolt EV - 218mi
258mi EPA Kona Electric - 245mi
322mi EPA Model Y - 274mi
 



 









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