US EV incentive rumored to increase to $10,000 [CLOSED DUE TO VIOLATION OF NO POLITICS RULES]

Status
Not open for further replies.

RCProAM

Active Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
37
Reaction score
59
Location
Atlanta
Vehicles
Mustang Mach E
Country flag
That totally slipped my mind that the Mach-E is built in Mexico!.. I read "American Made EV's" and immediately thought Ford=American Made.

Good catch!
Well Technically Mexico is on the continent of the Americas...I’m half joking, but it’s a common misnomer that “America” = United States...we’re just *North America*, There’s also Central and South America and I’d doubt Ford lobbyists would miss that opportunity to wedge in some sort of trade agreement exception to that effect. Otherwise somebody is getting fired

Most likely they’d spend the cost to move operations to the nearest spot right across the border. You can be guaranteed they’re not trying to eat $10k in price slashes or competing with Tesla at a $10k disadvantage.





Advertisement

 

69Mach390

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
168
Reaction score
183
Location
Florida
Vehicles
69 Mustang Mach 1, 15 Chevy SS
Country flag
Boo, they deleted all the “interesting discussion” posts.

What’s funny is that, unless I missed it, nothing in the hard to find (bottom of page terms of service) forum rules says anything about no politics in the off topic sections. They may want to update the list:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/help/terms/

Oh well.
 

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
M
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
50
Reaction score
44
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
Mercedes E320, Cadillac XT5, VW Jetta
Country flag
Boo, they deleted all the “interesting discussion” posts.

What’s funny is that, unless I missed it, nothing in the hard to find (bottom of page terms of service) forum rules says anything about no politics in the off topic sections. They may want to update the list:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/help/terms/

Oh well.
I am conflicted. On one hand I am glad all my rantings were deleted, because I really just want to talk about the Mach-E. On the other hand, I feel the entire post is political, not just my response to it.

Oh well. Let's talk cars! (With those who have not blocked me...)
 

69Mach390

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
Messages
168
Reaction score
183
Location
Florida
Vehicles
69 Mustang Mach 1, 15 Chevy SS
Country flag
I am conflicted. On one hand I am glad all my rantings were deleted, because I really just want to talk about the Mach-E. On the other hand, I feel the entire post is political, not just my response to it.

Oh well. Let's talk cars! (With those who have not blocked me...)
Well, based on the posts you made before, I’m sure it wont be long before something someone says gets you going again.

I am a little disappointed they deleted my joke! Wasn’t even political, but I think I quoted a “ranting” so it got taken out anyways. So I’ll try again!

I think the beauty of the Mach E is that it brings together people of different political backgrounds....... on one forum..... so we can all yell at each other.

Oh no Ford! What did you do?!
 

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
M
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Messages
50
Reaction score
44
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
Mercedes E320, Cadillac XT5, VW Jetta
Country flag
Well, based on the posts you made before, I’m sure it wont be long before something someone says gets you going again.
I will try to control myself. It will be easier if we just stay focused on the car, and not what government is doing.
 

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
5,896
Reaction score
6,150
Location
Colorado, USA
Vehicles
2013 Escape Titanium, 2021 Mustang Mach-E FE (Red)
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
It sounds like they might add a 'cap' on how much of a benefit a buyer would receive, depending upon the MSRP of the vehicle they get. This makes sense to me. If you can afford a $100K EV, you probably don't need the tax credit (or any other government incentives).
Some would say the same about a $50,000 car, which is still quite expensive.

Rather than trying to set an arbitrary and unfair dividing line for who's worthy of a new car subsidy or not, I'd rather just get the government out of the taxpayer subsidy game altogether.
 

88 KILOWATTS PER HOUR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2021
Messages
50
Reaction score
56
Location
Burbank, CA
Vehicles
2018 Chevy Volt
Country flag
Some would say the same about a $50,000 car, which is still quite expensive.

Rather than trying to set an arbitrary and unfair dividing line for who's worthy of a new car subsidy or not, I'd rather just get the government out of the taxpayer subsidy game altogether.
I hear you. But that can’t really happen until EVs cost the same as ICE vehicles. Until that day arrives, if we want more EVs on the road (and I assume you do), government subsidies are necessary.
 

Orangefirefish

Well-Known Member
First Name
SY
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
157
Reaction score
189
Location
USA
Vehicles
N/A
Country flag
I hear you. But that can’t really happen until EVs cost the same as ICE vehicles. Until that day arrives, if we want more EVs on the road (and I assume you do), government subsidies are necessary.
I think the best way to get EVs on the road is for manufacturers to make cars that will sell on their own merit, like the MME. I didn’t buy it for its environmental benefits, I got it because it’s good technology, a fast, fun, and sexy car, low/no maintenance, and convenient to charge at home. Look no further than Tesla- no EV incentives, crap quality, and still folks line up for that kool-aid. That’s because tech is cool.
 

BMT1071

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
201
Reaction score
111
Location
Glendale, AZ
Vehicles
17 Chevy Malibu, 21 Infiniti QX50, 21 MME On order
Occupation
Regional Service Manager
Country flag
I think the best way to get EVs on the road is for manufacturers to make cars that will sell on their own merit, like the MME. I didn’t buy it for its environmental benefits, I got it because it’s good technology, a fast, fun, and sexy car, low/no maintenance, and convenient to charge at home. Look no further than Tesla- no EV incentives, crap quality, and still folks line up for that kool-aid. That’s because tech is cool.
Only for a small segment of the population. Widespread adoption takes a push.
 

ab13

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Messages
297
Reaction score
227
Location
California
Vehicles
Rav4 Hybrid
Country flag
Only for a small segment of the population. Widespread adoption takes a push.
Not to mention that many people will buy based on the best deal. Right now the best deals are on gas cars, and since there is a lot of competition there are more deals to be had.

Part of the incentive should be to turn in an old gas car, similar to the cash for clunkers deals. So people who have old beaters can get an incentive to upgrade. This way the old inefficient cars get taken from the roads.
 

88 KILOWATTS PER HOUR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2021
Messages
50
Reaction score
56
Location
Burbank, CA
Vehicles
2018 Chevy Volt
Country flag
I think the best way to get EVs on the road is for manufacturers to make cars that will sell on their own merit, like the MME. I didn’t buy it for its environmental benefits, I got it because it’s good technology, a fast, fun, and sexy car, low/no maintenance, and convenient to charge at home. Look no further than Tesla- no EV incentives, crap quality, and still folks line up for that kool-aid. That’s because tech is cool.
I think the best way to get EVs on the road is for manufacturers to make cars that will sell on their own merit, like the MME. I didn’t buy it for its environmental benefits, I got it because it’s good technology, a fast, fun, and sexy car, low/no maintenance, and convenient to charge at home. Look no further than Tesla- no EV incentives, crap quality, and still folks line up for that kool-aid. That’s because tech is cool.
I agree, but this is only part of the equation. Many Americans can't afford a fancy new MME, or a Tesla, yet would still love to go electric. Two friends of mine just purchased bran new Chevy Bolts, which they were able to afford due to the incentives. Without those incentives, they'd still be driving beat up old gas guzzlers. Now, they're contributing to cleaner air quality here in LA (where I live).
 

88 KILOWATTS PER HOUR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2021
Messages
50
Reaction score
56
Location
Burbank, CA
Vehicles
2018 Chevy Volt
Country flag
Not to mention that many people will buy based on the best deal. Right now the best deals are on gas cars, and since there is a lot of competition there are more deals to be had.

Part of the incentive should be to turn in an old gas car, similar to the cash for clunkers deals. So people who have old beaters can get an incentive to upgrade. This way the old inefficient cars get taken from the roads.
Right. I almost bought another ICE vehicle in 2018. Instead, I made the transition to EVs with my Chevy Volt, which became much more affordable via government incentives. They 'sweetened the pot', so to speak.
 

DBC

Well-Known Member
First Name
Don
Joined
Oct 1, 2020
Messages
1,123
Reaction score
1,260
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
Volt ELR
Country flag
Rather than trying to set an arbitrary and unfair dividing line for who's worthy of a new car subsidy or not, I'd rather just get the government out of the taxpayer subsidy game altogether.
Isn't this a silly point? I don't use that term lightly, but the ENTIRE tax code is based on "arbitrary and unfair dividing lines" -- it's called the progressive tax rates. Not to mention all the other "arbitrary" rules governing different rates for capital gains or limits on mortgage interest deduction or limits on IRA or Roth IRA contributions. Hard to see why this one is any different. While a phaseout might work better -- and something other than a tax credit might be a better alternative -- there isn't any real basis for complaining about limiting the credit to vehicles selling above some "arbitrary" price. If you want to talk about "arbitrary" cut-offs, just look at how vehicles with a GVRW of 6001 pounds qualify for accelerated depreciation while those of 6000 don't.

As for the subsidy in general, if the market could capture externalities like the cost of protecting our oil supplies -- a huge part of the defense expenditures -- or if you had some way of eliminating having economic growth tied to a commodity price -- then you wouldn't need a subsidy. But it can't so we do.

I think the best way to get EVs on the road is for manufacturers to make cars that will sell on their own merit, like the MME.
You need good product and a good price. Some consumers are very price conscious. Some not so much.

One big problem is that people apply unrealistic discount rates to purchases. This accounts for the obsession with the monthly payment and makes cost saving technology a hard sell. A refrigerator might last eight years, but people want a six month payback for more efficiency. Ditto for light bulbs or an electric car. Where I am a BEV would save $10K over five years over an ICE vehicle (assuming the ICE got 25 MPG), but the vast majority of consumers would take the $21K vehicle before the $31K vehicle. In fact the vast majority would think a $21K ICE a better deal than a $25K BEV.
 
Last edited:

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
5,896
Reaction score
6,150
Location
Colorado, USA
Vehicles
2013 Escape Titanium, 2021 Mustang Mach-E FE (Red)
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
the ENTIRE tax code is based on "arbitrary and unfair dividing lines" -- it's called the progressive tax rates. Not to mention all the other "arbitrary" rules governing different rates for capital gains or limits on mortgage interest deduction or limits on IRA or Roth IRA contributions. Hard to see why this one is any different.
To varying degrees, yes. That doesn't make it fair or right to add more though. Just means there's a lot of unfairness in the tax code that should be fixed, or at least reduced. And in many cases, just eliminated altogether, with less government manipulation and tax&spend in total.

But a car forum really isn't a place to get deep into that massive, age-old debate.
 

Advertisement

Status
Not open for further replies.




 


Advertisement
Top