Some of us just got screwed by New Jersey - but Ford is stepping up!

[timbop]

I agree that Ford should not have to do anything. The funds that were supposed to go to the BEV program came from an existing "green surcharge" on NJ utility bills that has been in place for several years already. The problem is that the NJBPU has essentially redirected those funds to other programs, and at some point in the future the shell game that is NJ State financing will get "corrected". The incentive (along with other green initiatives) was put in place because NJ produces a huge amount of carbon dioxide and other pollutants from the transportation sector. There's a reason NJ is not renowned for its clean air.

I get where you're going with the tragedy of the commons, but the problem is NOT that too many people bought BEV's in NJ. The problem is that the State got hammered by Covid-19 and the federal government is standing idly by. We won't go into why that is, but it exists.

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[timbop]

probably lose the $7500 fed tax credit if you wait that long... What is the sales tax rate that you don't have to pay in NJ?

6.875%. It used to be 7%, but a couple of years ago they shuffled things around and raised the gas taxes but lowered the sales tax. Obviously as BEV's become more prevalent that will change again.

 

[malba2366]

Doubtful they will offer anything...they need to remain competitive vs the other EVs, so the state cancelling an incentive is a net zero to Ford. They don't have excess inventory at the moment, so they don't have to heavily incentivize sales...the vehicles can easily be traded to other dealers or sold to another buyer and the dealer may pocket the $500 deposit if a buyer walks away.

NJ still has one of the best incentives on EVs - the lack of sales tax is worth 3500 or more on the most popular trims being ordered.

 

[Johnny]

Ford should not offer any regional incentives for the MME based on expiring (state or federal) EV incentives. If Ford chooses to enact EV incentives, Ford should do so nationally. There are plenty of states that have no EV rebates, EV tax credits or other EV financial incentives. It now appears that NJ may be one of those states, perhaps temporarily. New Jersey is but one state of fifty (& DC). NJ buyers are getting a break on sales tax (many of us will not); NJ buyers also enjoy the $7,500 federal tax credit. Combined, that is more than many of us might otherwise save on our MME purchases. If Ford were to offer NJ residents financial incentives or rebates for the MME without offering such to residents of other states where no EV incentives exist, that would be a problem of equity for buyers in non-incentivized states.

I think you're missing the point. When we made the purchase decision by ordering the MME, we were counting on that rebate. Now it's not available.

Certainly, there are folks for which the $5,000 doesn't matter. But for some, like myself, the $5,000 NJ rebate was a deciding factor on going with EV.

So while I understand Ford doesn't have to do anything, they will certainly lose sales due to the NJBPU's decision.

You may say that Ford will have no trouble selling the inventory from the lost sales because apparent demand is greater than supply. And if that's true, then fine. I'll walk and buy an ICE vehicle instead.

But if that's not true, then it's to Ford's benefit to offer a rebate for NJ customers. Bird in the hand.....

And no, there has never been nationwide equity in automotive sales (not to speak of any other product). So I don't see that argument.

If you don't live in NJ I don't know why this thread is of any use to you. Please let us New Jerseyans complain about the NJBPU and how we can rectify it and be on your way. Go post on trutolife's thread and get that off topic again.

 

[IL_Vet]

I think you're missing the point. When we made the purchase decision by ordering the MME, we were counting on that rebate. Now it's not available.

Certainly, there are folks for which the $5,000 doesn't matter. But for some, like myself, the $5,000 NJ rebate was a deciding factor on going with EV.

So while I understand Ford doesn't have to do anything, they will certainly lose sales due to the NJBPU's decision.

You may say that Ford will have no trouble selling the inventory from the lost sales because apparent demand is greater than supply. And if that's true, then fine. I'll walk and buy an ICE vehicle instead.

But if that's not true, then it's to Ford's benefit to offer a rebate for NJ customers. Bird in the hand.....

And no, there has never been nationwide equity in automotive sales (not to speak of any other product). So I don't see that argument.

If you don't live in NJ I don't know why this thread is of any use to you. Please let us New Jerseyans complain about the NJBPU and how we can rectify it and be on your way. Go post on trutolife's thread and get that off topic again.

If Ford gives NJ purchasers a discount/incentive because New Jersey altered their budget due to COVID-19, Ford will lose sales in other regions. While shopping around for electricians to upgrade my panel, one electrician jokingly told me to find an electrician whose price I was willing to pay. I did that. So, here if the MME has slipped out of someone's price range, it might be wise to consider other options or wait for NJ to reinstate the $5,000 rebate for electric vehicles. COVID-19 produced unprecedented effects everywhere. Then, NJ MME buyers would get the $5000 rebate + ~3800 in waived taxes + some of the $7500 federal EV tax credit. Some of your fellow NJ citizens are hurting because of the effects of COVID-19, yet some are mad at NJ for prioritizing the health and safety of its citizens instead of subsidizing the purchase of pseudo-luxury EVs.

 

[c max]

If Ford gives NJ purchasers a discount/incentive because New Jersey altered their budget due to COVID-19, Ford will lose sales in other regions. While shopping around for electricians to upgrade my panel, one electrician jokingly told me to find an electrician whose price I was willing to pay. I did that. So, here if the MME has slipped out of someone's price range, it might be wise to consider other options or wait for NJ to reinstate the $5,000 rebate for electric vehicles. COVID-19 produced unprecedented effects everywhere. Then, NJ MME buyers would get the $5000 rebate + ~3800 in waived taxes + some of the $7500 federal EV tax credit. Some of your fellow NJ citizens are hurting because of the effects of COVID-19, yet some are mad at NJ for prioritizing the health and safety of its citizens instead of subsidizing the purchase of pseudo-luxury EVs.

Well, I'm not quite sure NJBPU suspended the incentive program due to shifting funds for COVID issues, but if someone can show me I would appreciate the info, I though the program was suspended due to it's success??......I live in Bergen Cty., NJ, for those of you NOT familiar, it is very populated, in a 5 square mile area is everything I'll ever need including 3 hospitals, NOT counting NYC which is within 5 miles of my house.....I say this because since the beginning of the incentive program I have seen more Teslas than ever....I know that's not very scientific, BUT I travel the same roads almost everyday and I am seeing 8 to 10X the Teslas that I did prior to the incentive program......also I know of a fair number of people that jumped on a EV car with the incentive being available....my point, NJ is probably going to pay out up to 30 million dollars, about 6000 new EV's during this segment of the program, that success caused the NJBPU to use up allotted funds for this segment......from everything I have read, the program is in shape to continue again sometime summer of 2021......I'm not going to get into my high taxes, or how expensive it is to live in the northeast, because it is a choice I make!!.....I do find it somewhat insulting for posters to connect one's complaining about losing their EV incentive to not caring about COVID and the suffering hundred of thousands are going through.....how any poster can say that NJ residents are mad at the great state of NJ for using money for COVID instead of their EV incentive is beyond me (if it is the case).....when posters list the benefits we WERE getting here in NJ to buy an EV, it almost seems like envy.......on a side note I'm not quite sure what a pseudo-luxury EV is????, a "fake or false" luxury EV?????....we here in NJ, or should I speak only for myself, will support any help the state can provide those suffering with COVID, but I can still wish I could get the EV incentive.....

 

[IL_Vet]

Well, I'm not quite sure NJBPU suspended the incentive program due to shifting funds for COVID issues, but if someone can show me I would appreciate the info, I though the program was suspended due to it's success??

....we here in NJ, or should I speak only for myself, will support any help the state can provide those suffering with COVID, but I can still wish I could get the EV incentive.....

Source: https://www.njspotlight.com/2020/08...tric-cars-with-a-5000-rebate-now-not-so-much/

 

[c max]

Source: https://www.njspotlight.com/2020/08...tric-cars-with-a-5000-rebate-now-not-so-much/

thanks for the info, but I had seen that press release, and it doesn't say that the cut funds are going to COVID relief but to make up for state revenues that declined because of the economic downturn....so the cut funds could be going anywhere.....

 

[timbop]

thanks for the info, but I had seen that press release, and it doesn't say that the cut funds are going to COVID relief but to make up for state revenues that declined because of the economic downturn....so the cut funds could be going anywhere.....

Are we really going to play semantic games? The economy got hammered because of Covid-19, and they redirected 53% of the surcharge that was added to everyone's utility bill specifically for this program to other things. It was NOT because too many people bought EV's and bankrupted the fund.

 

[carbonizedbrett]

I'm not really complaining about the state of the NJ incentive. I'll live.

My point is your insistence that Ford must/will/should maintain "equity" with pricing is some sort of strange fanciful utopian projection.

Ford doesn't owe NJ residents ? and it doesn't owe IL residents ?.

Any supposition about pricing - equitable or not - is just guessing - we haven't seen any deliveries or completed purchase agreements yet. Ford will do what they need to - and won't do what they don't need to do - to move product. If there are business reasons to offer regional incentives at some point in the future, they will. At this point, with no MMEs actually delivered, they might not end up with excess stock here in NJ if the loss of the incentive leads to cancellations. But if they did? I'd expect them to do the math and compare the cost of repositioning the vehicles vs. incentivizing local sales.

Again, I'm not saying what Ford should or should not do.

I expect them to prioritize business needs and profits. With the delays in deliveries, the EV competitive landscape may look quite a bit different as other vehicles become available and/or federal incentives change.

And wouldn't some regions be eligible for $2,500 Ford Options Retail Bonus Cash if cars were actually delivered by 1/4/2020 in central NJ? And only $1,000 in Chicago?

 

[timbop]

My point is your insistence that Ford must/will/should maintain "equity" with pricing is some sort of strange fanciful utopian projection.

I don't know to whom you are referring but I have NEVER suggested that nor do I think it is appropriate. I am suggesting that those of us here in NJ need to pressure our legislators to make the resumption of the program retroactive to December 15th, and nothing more.

 

[carbonizedbrett]

I don't know to whom you are referring but I have NEVER suggested that nor do I think it is appropriate. I am suggesting that those of us here in NJ need to pressure our legislators to make the resumption of the program retroactive to December 15th, and nothing more.

Whoops, that was a missed-quote of IL_VET. That's what I was responding to!

 

[c max]

Are we really going to play semantic games? The economy got hammered because of Covid-19, and they redirected 53% of the surcharge that was added to everyone's utility bill specifically for this program to other things. It was NOT because too many people bought EV's and bankrupted the fund.

I have no bone to pick with you timbop, but if you are directing your post to me, in your post of Dec.14, the OP, it, the release you posted, does say that by the year end they will have spent all funds, that, to me, seems to say that the funds for this segment were spent, no??.....I will say that my original problem was with how ILVET was "suggesting" that the complaining NJeans were putting their incentives ahead of the concerns associated with COVID......I don't believe there is a person in NJ that would say or do that.....we all understand that this is an unreal situation we are all in......my long post was totally in response to IL VET and his comments about us NJ folks.....when he said " some are mad at NJ for prioritizing the health and safety of its citizens instead of subsidizing the purchase of pseudo-luxury EV's" that really got to me!!!.....well again, I have no problem nor do I want to "go at it" with you, I tend to agree with you on most of your posts/comments......and we NJ folks have to stick together, hahaha.....and BTW I have contacted Gov. Murphy, my 2 Reps, the NJBPU, Doug O'Malley director of an environmental group, supporting EVs, plus any other supporting groups......Happy New Year to all, we could sure use it....

 

[timbop]

in your post of Dec.14, the OP, it, the release you posted, does say that by the year end they will have spent all funds, that, to me, seems to say that the funds for this segment were spent, no??

Yes, the OP was the press release which had the "spin" put on it that implied the shortage was due to the overwhelming response. Subsequently I read the article above that clarified that the budget was halved. So, while the press release is technically true (they spent the $14m that remained in the budget), it is also true that during the first 11 months of the program they spent less than half of what was originally set aside in anticipation.

Again, I fully agree with the need to prioritize the budget. My issues are the way that they sprang the cutoff in such a stealth manner, and the fact that when they restart the program they have no intention of redressing that stealth cutoff. Their plan is a DISINCENTIVE for purchasing EV's during the window, which will actually hurt the troubled economy of NJ.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I'm not really complaining about the state of the NJ incentive. I'll live.

My point is your insistence that Ford must/will/should maintain "equity" with pricing is some sort of strange fanciful utopian projection.

Ford doesn't owe NJ residents ? and it doesn't owe IL residents ?.

Any supposition about pricing - equitable or not - is just guessing - we haven't seen any deliveries or completed purchase agreements yet. Ford will do what they need to - and won't do what they don't need to do - to move product. If there are business reasons to offer regional incentives at some point in the future, they will. At this point, with no MMEs actually delivered, they might not end up with excess stock here in NJ if the loss of the incentive leads to cancellations. But if they did? I'd expect them to do the math and compare the cost of repositioning the vehicles vs. incentivizing local sales.

Again, I'm not saying what Ford should or should not do.

I expect them to prioritize business needs and profits. With the delays in deliveries, the EV competitive landscape may look quite a bit different as other vehicles become available and/or federal incentives change.

And wouldn't some regions be eligible for $2,500 Ford Options Retail Bonus Cash if cars were actually delivered by 1/4/2020 in central NJ? And only $1,000 in Chicago?

You hit the nail on the head for Ford. If the company sees the loss of NJ sales to be a problem, I have no qualms with them upping the incentives to keep customers on board. On the other hand, Ford could equally see enough signs they will sell all the first year Mach Es either way and not bother. It's their business decision.

I would say the same thing regarding the expired Maryland credit, as well.

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