What do you think is the chance of 150k+ miles?

maktas1973

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I’m intending to keep this car going for a while. I know someone here has reached 60k with the MME, with no major problems. At this point, the options that are coming out in the somewhat near future aren’t particularly compelling to me. I understand about battery degradation, so I know at 100k miles I can expect rather significantly lower range, but I might be able to live with 140~ range for almost all my driving. Anyone have some reason why or why not the life of the car could be north of 150k miles?

This is why I really want LFP battery to reduce the degradation issue
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ADDZ71

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I think you could easily anticipate 300K miles as long as you don't abuse the battery as another poster has suggested. I have a friend with a 2014 Tesla using older battery chemistry that is still getting 90+% of original range at that distance. The chemistry and management that FORD uses is ultra conservative so I would suggest that many other things will go out before the batteries.
 

Cm12

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You totally missed my point. You will very likely NOT have a 30% reduction. I would expect 15%. That is NOT significant.
Even 15% is definitely significant. It’s reasonable, but significant. Going from about 200 miles of range to 170 is a pretty big deal, especially in the winter months.
 

sookestang

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Agree - the biggest threat to the long term value of the car is the stale tech. 10 years is an eternity in UI and driver assist. I expect the batteries and general mechanics of the car to be fine.
I look at it as this. By the time I want to get rid of the car, EV's will be more mainstream and the perfect used entry car for someone getting into an EV for the first time. Let's face it, the tech as it stands, the basics of the vehicle operations, are standard and will be for years to come. Newer cars will have the latest features and cool options, but that also applies to ICE cars.

I plan on holding onto this car for quite some time.
 

DennisD

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Even 15% is definitely significant. It’s reasonable, but significant. Going from about 200 miles of range to 170 is a pretty big deal, especially in the winter months.
It is all relative of what is "significant" but if you are using it as a commuter locally, I would think that wouldn't be a major issue.
 


dtbaker61

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I’m intending to keep this car going for a while. I know someone here has reached 60k with the MME, with no major problems. At this point, the options that are coming out in the somewhat near future aren’t particularly compelling to me. I understand about battery degradation, so I know at 100k miles I can expect rather significantly lower range, but I might be able to live with 140~ range for almost all my driving. Anyone have some reason why or why not the life of the car could be north of 150k miles?

no reason not to expect WAY north of 150k miles....
likely to require some maintenance of typical stuff like wheel bearings, struts, fluids.... possibly circulation pumps, and hopefully not but maybe the electronic things like door buttons and latches that USED to be mechanical in 'the old days' but now are switches and relays with some predictable lifespan.
 

mkhuffman

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You totally missed my point. You will very likely NOT have a 30% reduction. I would expect 15%. That is NOT significant.
My battery SoH has lost 7% after 23k miles and 14 months of use. If it keeps declining at this pace, my car will reach 70% prior to 100k miles. And then I will ask Ford for a new battery.
 
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RickMachE

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My battery SoH has lost 7% after 23k miles and 14 months of use. If it keeps declining at this pace, my car will reach 70% prior to 100k miles. And then I will ask Ford for a new battery.
Doesn't work that way. They measure the battery. They determine capacity. And they can release more capacity.

And your drop if correct, and if linear, would be right at 70% capacity. Meers warranty.
 

intensifi

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If you cap your charges to 80% or 85% for the vast majority of your charges
(DCFC only for long trips), this is a terminal vehicle.

There are approx 3500 less parts than the equivalent ICE vehicle.
 
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BigMach-E

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Doesn't work that way. They measure the battery. They determine capacity. And they can release more capacity.

And your drop if correct, and if linear, would be right at 70% capacity. Meers warranty.
Hi Rick,

Thanks for your contribution. Maybe 15 percent less range is not a significant number to you. I don’t wish to split hairs on what constitutes “significant”.

As for the battery capacity measurement, I would assume the GOM would have nothing to do with it.
Are we speaking of kw measured via a car scanner app at full charge? Because you are staying the stale of health isn’t the measurement to judge this. Sorry for the ignorance
 

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I’m intending to keep this car going for a while. I know someone here has reached 60k with the MME, with no major problems. At this point, the options that are coming out in the somewhat near future aren’t particularly compelling to me. I understand about battery degradation, so I know at 100k miles I can expect rather significantly lower range, but I might be able to live with 140~ range for almost all my driving. Anyone have some reason why or why not the life of the car could be north of 150k miles?
There is no reason you wouldn't get a lot more than that. As long as you don't use fast chargers you can get over 1000 full charging cycles on L2. By the time the battery capacity drops to 70% the car will be junk anyway.
 

SpaceEVDriver

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I fully expect to get at least 150,000 miles out of the vehicle with minimal (<10%) degradation of the battery. Most of the battery FUD is old and ill-informed and based on misunderstanding of discharge rates, charge cycles, etc.

My Mustang's extended range battery has total 98.7 kWh of capacity. When I drive at highway speed (75 mph), I average about 3.0 to 3.3 miles/kWh. If I were to drive from 100% charge to 0% charge (ignoring the reserves for the moment), I would go about 296 miles in about 4 hours. That's a full discharge in 4 hours.

Typical lifetime tests are done with a specified C-rate, usually at either 1C or 5C, and sometimes 0.5C. 1C means full discharge in 1 hour; 5C means full discharge in 12 minutes; 0.5C means full discharge in 2 hours. At highway speeds, I would be discharging at 0.25C.

Testing of the batteries the Mustang uses indicate that at a C-rate of 0.5C, fade to maximum of 80% capacity will be reached after around 1100 charge cycles, compared with about 900 for a C-rate of 1C. This is assuming a 45 degrees C constant battery temperature--lower realistic temperatures will be seen in the battery during real-world use. I didn't find a chart that shows a 0.2 or 0.25 C-rate, so I'm going to use 1100 charge cycles even though that's fewer than we should expect.

Note that a charge cycle is not a discharge-charge without accounting for depth of discharge. Rather a cycle is typically considered depth of discharge of about 80% or a cumulative discharge of about 80%. So, if you use 16% of your car's capacity on your commute (about 40-48 miles assuming 3.0 to 3.3 miles/kWh), you're hitting a cycle every five commutes. That means (if the battery temperature were always around 45 degrees C during use) you would get about 1100 weeks of use out of your battery before you saw it fade to 80%. That's 21 years and 220k miles.

Obviously a lot of things aren't perfect in this simple analysis, but 150k miles is entirely reasonable before appreciable fade.

Note also that fade isn't linear. There's often a scary-looking drop early in the life of the battery and then it starts to become more shallow over time.
 
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Reign of Ravens

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I personally believe that in the next 5 - 10 years, this vehicle will be so outdated most people won't want it.
Maybe, maybe not... I still see some of the earliest Tesla Model S in service. Granted, Tesla was ahead on EV technologies and even those earliest Teslas arguably still have a few advantages over our current Mach-E's when it comes to things like charging rates. But I don't think EVs will go obsolete as quickly as, say, cellphones. Heck, I still see early-version Leafs in use; people have different driving needs, and even outdated vehicles can still get the job done well for these people.

My battery SoH has lost 7% after 23k miles and 14 months of use. If it keeps declining at this pace, my car will reach 70% prior to 100k miles. And then I will ask Ford for a new battery.
I once saw some interesting graphs about the earliest Teslas and battery degradation. As one of the posts above mentions, there tends to be a fairly quick drop-off in battery capacity early on and then it seems to level off. Granted, that was in Tesla - we'll have to see how Ford's systems handle it, but it seems promising.

On the other hand, if your pack is really doing poorly, hopefully it hits that threshold sooner rather than later for you so that you can get it replaced at no cost to you.
 

Chris-MMEX_GT500

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150k miles, from a battery and motor perspective, yes.

Solid State batteries will cause a shift once they are used due to their charge speed and overall improvement in range for hot and cold temperatures.

Once they are placed in vehicles, the lithium ion battery powered EVs will lose their value.

I would expect companies to offer conversions from Lithium to Solid State batteries as an option for EVs where the conversions are viable.
 

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I don't think it will be an issue at all. 50K on the odometer at 23 months. Will slow down now that I have the Lightning. The only issues I have had are totally unrelated to the EV portion - i.e. replaced half shafts.
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