What is your threshold?

jhalkias

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I refuse to buy any car that doesn’t fully support Apple CarPlay at this point. Besides integration with our HomeKit equipped house, the security of knowing CarPlay can keep getting better despite the hardware in the vehicle getting older is a real selling point. At some point the hardware will be limiting I’m sure, but you’ve bought yourself some time by relying on your smartphone to be the brains of the operation.
My '16 Escape was supposed to be upgradeable to CarPlay. It was. But you had to install a new hub. I bought it and did it myself for about $100.
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MailGuy

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Yes, but... They have to take into account the lifespan of the product the software runs on. On a cell phone, that's probably around a 3-year average. On a laptop, probably 5 year average. On a car, it's more like a decade average, with many making it 20+ years.

That doesn't mean they have to support it for free, of course. Maybe in 10 years they'll say "we can't support updates to that 2021 equipment anymore, but we do offer a hardware upgrade package for $2000".
And I would pass if they did. Because honestly, I doubt it would make the car feel shiny and new.
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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From time to time, MyFordTouch locks me out of audio on/off, volume up/down, input change, and voice command functions. I have to pull the MFT fuse behind the glove box when this happens. It's a pain. I don't want to deal with that anymore.
other people seem to have a lot more trouble with MFT than I've had in my 2013 Fusion. Once I figured out the one software bug involving Bluetooth streaming and title information with unusual characters (the "explicit" indicator in my podcast app for podcasts with curse words, basically), and one APIM hardware failure, it's been solid. Certainly more so than say the gf's iPad, which seems to get worse with every OS release, bad enough that she keeps begging me to get her an Android tablet 😱...
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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My '09 Escape Hybrid didn't have OTA updates but it did have downloadable updates (download on your computer, copy them to a USB thumb drive, and plug them into the car to run the update.) They stopped putting those out several years ago but ... car still works fine (it just never gets an update).

More recently it got a bit of a downgrade ... because the Sync system used to generate a vehicle health report but Ford shut down the service that handled that ... so I don't get those anymore.

But as a car ... it still works great.
yeah my 2013 lost that too, as well as the fake-OnStar voice assistance. The VHR wasn't super useful, and I only used the voice assistance once and felt very silly doing so.

I do wish Ford had put out an update to pull the associated references in the screens from the system but I know that would have required a cost that probably wasn't worth it from a cost/benefit viewpoint.
 

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This will depend on each one's techy and patience level. Don't flame me but I don't like Apple or Mac products. Too simple, boring. I like to dig into the OS and modify, options. Yes, it makes things more complex and hence more failure prone, but I find it's worth it. Have owned an iPhone, Samsung Galaxy, Huawei, Xiaomi, Motorola, Redmi, Pixel, Nexus, etc. It's important to distinguish the brand, as each has its own OS/skin on top of Android. The VW Fender system in my Passat was good but slow to boot; on the Acura TLX it was also slow; on my current Honda it's not bad at all, even though it is running Android 4.2 (why don't auto manufacturers update?); my wife has a new 2020 Escape with sync 3 and it's fast, responsive, with only a small quirk. Have to turn off the Wifi connection in order for the bluetooth streaming from a phone not to skip.
I expect a few quirks from the Mach E, some the will fix, some they won't be able to. As long as not something major, which they should fix, it will be fine to play with.
 

pb3

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I'm basing my length of ownership on mileage. My '03 4Runner has over 160k miles on it with no real issues. It will go away when I get my Mach E, but I expect the new owner will easily get another 50k or more miles from the Toyota.

So, from a mechanical perspective, I would expect the Mach E to easily go 200k miles or more. It's a vastly simplified platform not having all the ICE components, and a much less complicated transmission. However, within that 200k mile period, I'd expect to have to replace the high voltage battery at some point.

I'm not too worried about the longevity of the Sync 4 system. Because it's so integrated into, and vital to the operation of the car, Ford will have to continue to support tweaks, fixes, and even upgrades to keep the car operable and safe. I'm sure the various regulation authorities would have something to say about Ford abandoning OTAs for safety, for example. Some point in the future there may come a time when new feature upgrades are not possible because of processor power and the like. I'm not likely to care much. There are already plenty of toys to play with.

The Mach E will be my most expensive auto purchase ever. I'm 68 years old, and it's pretty likely that I'll have the car until I cannot (or should not) drive anymore. There's probably only one more new car purchase in my life (to replace our 2013 MKX) within the next 3-5 years or so. We'll be looking for reliability and longevity. By that time, we'll have enough data on the Mach E to point us in the right direction.
 

Popeye

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I am an Apple and Mac guy too . . . so I DO want it to "just work".

However, to me the more important question perhaps now that you raised it, is will Ford ever STOP support of the Mustang Mach E software at some point in the distant future? Like MicroSoft no longer supports XP?
Will the Mach E be able to be a classic someday? Or will the lack of software support brick the car? Will an entire hacking industry spring up around these kinds of cars that are so dependent on software once the manufacturer sunsets the OS?
I think sunsetting the OS is inevitable. But it doesn’t mean the car will stop working. It just means it will stop being fixed. But I think it is fair to say you will lose features. My 2013 Taurus is a prime example. Only 7 years old and Ford shutdown support for its Sync. No longer can it send health reports via email. Which was my favorite part of it. Ford shutdown the phone number it would call to send out the email.

The MME won’t become a brick. But let’s say I’m 15 years you need to replace the battery. By then batteries will have significantly changed. If FNV is sunsetted by then, you will most likely be limited to compatible batteries. Meaning batteries that had drivers written for them prior to the sunsetting.

Before I get boring...technology and current impressions of cars don’t mix. A BEV from 2020 won’t restorable in 2075 like you can do now with a 1965 Mustang.

i write software for a living so I apologize if this gets long and drawn out. But Ford has to be spending a ton of money right now setting up its cloud, databases, etc. Well the hardware it runs on has a shelf life. Say 10 years for example. Well in 10 years they are going to have to decide if they are going to migrate all the data in those servers, as well as the software they write to interact with vehicles. That software will probably no longer be used by that for new vehicles In 2030. So at that point any feature that requires interacting with the servers or OTA’s will no longer work. Something like Co-Pilot 360, that is specifically written for certain highways. By 2030 the list of highways will no longer grow. most likely it will start shrinking if new construction and changes to the highway happen as they will. It’s simply not cost effective for any software company to keep supporting a software they are implementing and not making money off of. The only way it would get migrated to the new servers is if money is coming. Meaning features that are subscription based. So if 360 costs $20 a month and they have enough people paying that $20 a month, then it will be migrated. Otherwise it will be gone with the wind.
 

Illinibird

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My '09 Escape Hybrid didn't have OTA updates but it did have downloadable updates (download on your computer, copy them to a USB thumb drive, and plug them into the car to run the update.) They stopped putting those out several years ago but ... car still works fine (it just never gets an update).

More recently it got a bit of a downgrade ... because the Sync system used to generate a vehicle health report but Ford shut down the service that handled that ... so I don't get those anymore.

But as a car ... it still works great.
Ford shut down my Sync too for vehicle health report except I have a much newer car; a 2016 Fusion. They did this a few years ago when the car was only about 3 years old.
 
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JamieGeek

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I think sunsetting the OS is inevitable. But it doesn’t mean the car will stop working. It just means it will stop being fixed. But I think it is fair to say you will lose features. My 2013 Taurus is a prime example. Only 7 years old and Ford shutdown support for its Sync. No longer can it send health reports via email. Which was my favorite part of it. Ford shutdown the phone number it would call to send out the email.

The MME won’t become a brick. But let’s say I’m 15 years you need to replace the battery. By then batteries will have significantly changed. If FNV is sunsetted by then, you will most likely be limited to compatible batteries. Meaning batteries that had drivers written for them prior to the sunsetting.

Before I get boring...technology and current impressions of cars don’t mix. A BEV from 2020 won’t restorable in 2075 like you can do now with a 1965 Mustang.

i write software for a living so I apologize if this gets long and drawn out. But Ford has to be spending a ton of money right now setting up its cloud, databases, etc. Well the hardware it runs on has a shelf life. Say 10 years for example. Well in 10 years they are going to have to decide if they are going to migrate all the data in those servers, as well as the software they write to interact with vehicles. That software will probably no longer be used by that for new vehicles In 2030. So at that point any feature that requires interacting with the servers or OTA’s will no longer work. Something like Co-Pilot 360, that is specifically written for certain highways. By 2030 the list of highways will no longer grow. most likely it will start shrinking if new construction and changes to the highway happen as they will. It’s simply not cost effective for any software company to keep supporting a software they are implementing and not making money off of. The only way it would get migrated to the new servers is if money is coming. Meaning features that are subscription based. So if 360 costs $20 a month and they have enough people paying that $20 a month, then it will be migrated. Otherwise it will be gone with the wind.
LOL many of us on here write software for a living, or are otherwise involved in technology.

(There was an informal "poll" a while ago; the results were striking LOL.)

Think about the demographics of an EV, an online forum and well here we are.

Oh and usually OEM's support vehicles for 10 years (you'll get recalls out to 10 years; sometimes longer).

At one point in my career I was writing the software for an aftermarket diagnostic scan tool. We worked very hard to make that tool work with any vehicle with a computer (goes back to the mid 1980s). Testing for that was fun: calling used car lots and junk yards to see if they had working vehicles of specific models to test (driving all over the place once a model was found).
 

Barno

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I think sunsetting the OS is inevitable. But it doesn’t mean the car will stop working. It just means it will stop being fixed. But I think it is fair to say you will lose features. My 2013 Taurus is a prime example. Only 7 years old and Ford shutdown support for its Sync. No longer can it send health reports via email. Which was my favorite part of it. Ford shutdown the phone number it would call to send out the email.

The MME won’t become a brick. But let’s say I’m 15 years you need to replace the battery. By then batteries will have significantly changed. If FNV is sunsetted by then, you will most likely be limited to compatible batteries. Meaning batteries that had drivers written for them prior to the sunsetting.

Before I get boring...technology and current impressions of cars don’t mix. A BEV from 2020 won’t restorable in 2075 like you can do now with a 1965 Mustang.

i write software for a living so I apologize if this gets long and drawn out. But Ford has to be spending a ton of money right now setting up its cloud, databases, etc. Well the hardware it runs on has a shelf life. Say 10 years for example. Well in 10 years they are going to have to decide if they are going to migrate all the data in those servers, as well as the software they write to interact with vehicles. That software will probably no longer be used by that for new vehicles In 2030. So at that point any feature that requires interacting with the servers or OTA’s will no longer work. Something like Co-Pilot 360, that is specifically written for certain highways. By 2030 the list of highways will no longer grow. most likely it will start shrinking if new construction and changes to the highway happen as they will. It’s simply not cost effective for any software company to keep supporting a software they are implementing and not making money off of. The only way it would get migrated to the new servers is if money is coming. Meaning features that are subscription based. So if 360 costs $20 a month and they have enough people paying that $20 a month, then it will be migrated. Otherwise it will be gone with the wind.
Thank you for ELI5, without people like you and this forum, I am not sure that I would even risk driving/leasing/owning an MME at all. My threshold is that my new MME should be as uncomplicated, fun and relatively carefree to use as my 10 year old Prius, iPhone, Mpow Bluetooth headset and Amazfit GTR watch. All the above mentioned devices have ridiculously complicated and sophisticated software/hardware, created by some of brightest minds out there, but a non techie, non brilliant person like me can own and use them in their daily life without much effort or worries. That is my threshold.
 

jhalkias

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Appreciate all the input from those of you that actually do the work of tech, from someone who dabbles in it only as a hobby. You all offer unique insight.

This is going to be interesting as the Mach E will probably and hopefully last a lot longer than ICE cars. Time will tell I guess. With retirement looming in this decade for me, this may be my last, or next to last significant vehicle purchase. I am hoping I am so happy with it that it may be my last. If it were not for the Mach E, I would be quite happy to keep driving my 2016 Escape that has 155,000 miles on it now. If the Mach E is as pleasurable to drive, with the flexibility to never stop again at a gas station (unless it is a Sheetz with EA) and to help the environment for my children, I will be happy to keep on driving it.
 

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So I have a 2017 Fusion Energi with the Synch 3 - I haven't had a very many issues - but I have to admit that when it does glitch (so far nothing worse than a self reboot) I get a little itchy - but nothing that would have me at the dealership the next day. My previous car, a 2005 Volvo XC90 - I drove that for 12 years... the vehicle before - 5 years, and before that 10 years - so I am not a person with a new car every two years... I tend to love my cars - I anthropomorphize them a little if I am totally honest...
 

RockDaphne98296

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Appreciate all the input from those of you that actually do the work of tech, from someone who dabbles in it only as a hobby. You all offer unique insight.

This is going to be interesting as the Mach E will probably and hopefully last a lot longer than ICE cars. Time will tell I guess. With retirement looming in this decade for me, this may be my last, or next to last significant vehicle purchase. I am hoping I am so happy with it that it may be my last. If it were not for the Mach E, I would be quite happy to keep driving my 2016 Escape that has 155,000 miles on it now. If the Mach E is as pleasurable to drive, with the flexibility to never stop again at a gas station (unless it is a Sheetz with EA) and to help the environment for my children, I will be happy to keep on driving it.
Congrats on the nearing retirement! 🥳

That being said - my folks actually went through cars more often once they were retired - and not because they wrecked them! Because their requirements changed - today at 80 they are still quite active and are constantly visiting the grandkids, who are adults now too. (well recently that has changed, because - you know, 2020😷) I guess your statement about this being your last vehicle hit me because my Mom said the same thing - but that was 20 years ago!

So here is to a long retirement and your next new car, maybe in 5 or so years, after Fords release of an EV Explorer 🤩
 
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