What to believe!? UK Customers

SJ_Okay

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Feb 25, 2020
Messages
185
Reaction score
99
Location
UK
First Name
Scott
Vehicles
AWD ER Mach-E
Country flag
Any Uk pre-order customers starting to feel a little nervous as we get closer to hearing from dealerships and parting with our cash? Ive seen so many contradictory range comparisons being thrown about, online and by quite some distance. This is naturally a worry to me. Additionally, I’ve found the staff at the Go Electric event somewhat clueless on questions I had around V2G capability of their wall box. No one was able to tell me if I would be able to change the spec of my pre-order if we find that range is not as promising as we first thought.

Are there any other UK pre-order customers who are feeling as nervous about this as I am? These figures below are way off what ford are promising... especially if you’re paying £10k more for what should be 370m of range and it turns out to be sub 300.


https://evcompare.io/cars/compare/?...g-mach-e-sr-awd-vs-ford-mustang-mach-e-sr-rwd
 
Last edited:

ccarpen

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
12
Reaction score
8
Location
UK
Vehicles
Jaguar I Pace
Country flag
Any Uk pre-order customers starting to feel we might be getting fleeced by Ford here? Ive seen so many contradictory range comparisons being thrown about,?and by quite some distance. This is naturally a worry to me, as a pre-sale customer. Additionally, I’ve found the staff at the Go Electric event somewhat clueless on questions I had around V2G capability as well as being able to tell me if I can even change the spec of my pre-order if we find that range is not as promised.

Are there any other UK pre-order customers who are feeling as nervous about this as I am? These figures below are way off what ford are promising... especially if you’re paying £10k more for what should be 370m of range.


https://evcompare.io/cars/compare/?...g-mach-e-sr-awd-vs-ford-mustang-mach-e-sr-rwd
The estimared 370 mile range for the ER RWD is the WLTP test, whereas the ranges quoted on the linked webpage are EPA estimates. The approx. 20% difference between EPA and WLTP is quite normal, with EPA figures being a closer fit to real world.

I wouldn't expect the car manufacturer to know too much about V2G. This is dependent on your home charger allowing bi-directional travel between your home, grid and car, and having the right energy tariff to benefit from it (check out wallbox quasar).
 
OP
SJ_Okay

SJ_Okay

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Feb 25, 2020
Messages
185
Reaction score
99
Location
UK
First Name
Scott
Vehicles
AWD ER Mach-E
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
The estimared 370 mile range for the ER RWD is the WLTP test, whereas the ranges quoted on the linked webpage are EPA estimates. The approx. 20% difference between EPA and WLTP is quite normal, with EPA figures being a closer fit to real world.

I wouldn't expect the car manufacturer to know too much about V2G. This is dependent on your home charger allowing bi-directional travel between your home, grid and car, and having the right energy tariff to benefit from it (check out wallbox quasar).
Thanks for that... this is my first EV purchase, so I am new to stuff like this and that is helpful to know de: EPA vs WLTP... so if you’re saying EPA is a closer fit to real world, then to me if begins to feel like this car is perhaps not as fantastic as I’ve been led to believe? It would mean something like top spec Peugeot e-2008 ends up giving you almost the same real world range as an EPA estimate for the SR RWF Mach e, but for 5k cheaper... and that is with a smaller battery in the Peugeot!?

I will take a look quasar... are they UK based? At the moment, the only cars capable of V2G in the UK are Nissan Leaf and Renault... as far as I am aware, but I know there are many V2G boxes in development... and my questions at the Go Electric event was specifically related to the Ford wall box and if they had in any way future proofed it for V2G, as this is pretty important for me. They didn’t even know what V2G even was, which I did found disappointing. I currently trade energy from my solar panels and battery through a company called Social Energy... and they have future proofed their platform for V2G, so it is something I’m very interested in... I would like to get a wall box installed before the Mach E arrives, as I’d rather charge at home for free via my solar and battery set up but I really don’t want to pay for one now that becomes redundant when they’ve developed a workable way for CCS2 to work with V2G.
 
Last edited:

dbsb3233

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
1,140
Reaction score
823
Location
Colorado, USA
First Name
Tim
Vehicles
2013 Ford Escape
Occupation
Retired
Country flag
BEV range also varies greatly (far more than gas mileage) depending on speed and driving conditions. It can vary by nearly a factor of 2 from best to worst conditions. If you do a lot of high speed driving (70 MPH+), you'll see that range drop dramatically. OTOH, if most of your driving is slower speed with more stop-and-go, then range could be better than advertised. Really hot or really cold temperatures also hurt efficiency. 370 miles might be achievable on really favorable conditions, but in very unfavorable conditions it could fall all the way to 200 or so. We'll know more when vehicles hit the road and people start reporting real world experiences.

If you're charging at home overnight, few people are going to need anything more than the Ford Mobile Charger that's included with the vehicle. All that needs is a standard 240v outlet to plug into (32A or higher). Although I have no idea how that works with V2G.
 

Wonky_Donkey

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tony
Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
109
Reaction score
193
Location
UK
First Name
Tony
Vehicles
2019 Prius PHEV
Country flag
I've always thought of myself as fairly knowledgeable when it comes to EV's and associated tech - but to be honest I'd never heard of V2G before either.

Are you not concerned about the stress V2G will put your car battery under. It will add extra charge cycles to your car's battery and theoretically shorten its lifespan.

I know you'd said it's important to you - but you are genuinely the first person I have heard request any info about it.

I also went to the London Event, and I must admit there was just one guy there who really seemed to know his stuff. The rest of the people were just there to answer basic questions and help people use interactive exhibits, so I'm not surprised they couldn't help.

In regards to mileage differences between quoted and actual and differences between EPA and WLTP - that's not bothering me. I'm happy to trust WLTP estimates because we drive in a very different way to the Americans due to the difference in road infrastructure. They do a lot of highway driving, whereas fo us UK people the vast majority of our driving is non-motorway - which will make a huge difference on battery drain and range.
 
Last edited:

LYTMCQ

Well-Known Member
First Name
Lyt
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
942
Reaction score
348
Location
Portland
First Name
Lyt
Vehicles
Telsa Model 3 LR AWD
Country flag
EPA test range of 270 miles is likely best guess but keep in mind some basics on EV's if you think the 270 miles is not going to work for you.

Daily charging to forestall battery degradation is 10%-85% so your working range is already 75% of rated range. In this case 202 miles. Take another 25% loss of range for cold weather (50F and down) and you are down to 150 mile range. Drive 70 mph on the freeway and another 15% and 129 working range in Winter.

With home charging this should be OK for most people.
 

K1TT

Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
18
Reaction score
14
Location
Royal Oak, MI
First Name
Chris
Vehicles
2015 Ford Mustang EcoBoost Performance Pack
Occupation
Product Designer
Country flag
It would mean something like top spec Peugeot e-2008 ends up giving you almost the same real world range as an EPA estimate for the SR RWF Mach e, but for 5k cheaper... and that is with a smaller battery in the Peugeot!?
Perhaps I'm wrong here, but according to Peugeot's UK website their WLTP range on the e-2008 is 206 miles.The WLTP range of the Mach-E being 270 is a pretty big gap compared to that. Even comparing the 230 EPA mileage of Mach-E the e-2008 would be the equivalent of 175 (if you compare Ford's EPA to WLTP calculations), which is a solid 55 miles. Not sure if that's a big enough gap for you, but 5k for 55mi plus a faster more sporty car (SR Mach-E is 0-60 in 6.x sec vs 8.x in the e-2008) seems kind-of worth it
 
OP
SJ_Okay

SJ_Okay

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Feb 25, 2020
Messages
185
Reaction score
99
Location
UK
First Name
Scott
Vehicles
AWD ER Mach-E
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #8
I've always thought of myself as fairly knowledgeable when it comes to EV's and associated tech - but to be honest I'd never heard of V2G before either.

Are you not concerned about the stress V2G will put your car battery under. It will add extra charge cycles to your car's battery and theoretically shorten its lifespan.

I know you'd said it's important to you - but you are genuinely the first person I have heard request any info about it.

I also went to the London Event, and I must admit there was just one guy there who really seemed to know his stuff. The rest of the people were just there to answer basic questions and help people use interactive exhibits, so I'm not surprised they couldn't help.

In regards to mileage differences between quoted and actual and differences between EPA and WLTP - that's not bothering me. I'm happy to trust WLTP estimates because we drive in a very different way to the Americans due to the difference in road infrastructure. They do a lot of highway driving, whereas fo us UK people the vast majority of our driving is non-motorway - which will make a huge difference on battery drain and range.
I’m not too concerned about the stress on the battery as any power that is drawn would be absolutely tiny in comparison to what is being drawn when I push down on the accelerator. It would also be limited to the capability of your home wall box, which is not likely to be more than 11kw. If you’re boiling the kettle non stop all day and running the tumble drier, then maybe. But as someone who works from home, my energy demands are highest in the day, when energy prices are higher too. Essentially, V2G would allow you to power your house off your car... particularly useful to have in the event of a power outage, but it is something that would work very well with the AI that exists in Fords on board tech as well as that of my home set up. The computer learning would fast learn times when I’m not using the car and the distances and locations I’m travelling. You would essentially be able to subsidise the energy you put into your car when you get home by having an algorithm trade stored energy at peak times, then buying it back and putting it into your battery when prices are low. That’s how my current system works with the battery at home. I get quarterly checks from my energy supplier ranging between £20-£150, depending on season and energy usage... especially great for when you’re away holiday.

If its used responsibly, it shouldn’t degrade the battery, as it would only draw small amounts and store that in the 6kw battery that is in the house, and the AI would make sure you always have enough to get where you go at the times you need it. Unfortunately, at the moment it is only possible via CHADemo.
 
Last edited:
OP
SJ_Okay

SJ_Okay

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Feb 25, 2020
Messages
185
Reaction score
99
Location
UK
First Name
Scott
Vehicles
AWD ER Mach-E
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #9
Perhaps I'm wrong here, but according to Peugeot's UK website their WLTP range on the e-2008 is 206 miles.The WLTP range of the Mach-E being 270 is a pretty big gap compared to that. Even comparing the 230 EPA mileage of Mach-E the e-2008 would be the equivalent of 175 (if you compare Ford's EPA to WLTP calculations), which is a solid 55 miles. Not sure if that's a big enough gap for you, but 5k for 55mi plus a faster more sporty car (SR Mach-E is 0-60 in 6.x sec vs 8.x in the e-2008) seems kind-of worth it
Cheers for that! I was getting the 206m range from an online reviewer was saying it was real world range. Somewhat relieved, because I really don’t want to buy a Peugeot 🤣
 

s7davis

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Nov 28, 2019
Messages
72
Reaction score
49
Location
California
First Name
Scott
Vehicles
2019 Alfa Romeo
Country flag
I say just wait til next month as I am sure their will be more information about it at the Geneva Show which I would assume Ford will be participating in. So I am sure they will release more information then. Who knows they might actually release the actual EPA figures and not just estimates. The geneva Show is March 5 - 15.
 
OP
SJ_Okay

SJ_Okay

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Feb 25, 2020
Messages
185
Reaction score
99
Location
UK
First Name
Scott
Vehicles
AWD ER Mach-E
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #11
🤞🏼 Just hoping they don’t release their dealerships on us to lock down payment/financing before we get any of this info... my biggest worry.
 

portlandg

Well-Known Member
First Name
grahame
Joined
Mar 17, 2020
Messages
170
Reaction score
111
Location
uk
First Name
grahame
Vehicles
kuga st line x RWD ER MACH E on order
Occupation
Cabinet maker
Country flag
Cheers for that! I was getting the 206m range from an online reviewer was saying it was real world range. Somewhat relieved, because I really don’t want to buy a Peugeot 🤣
I had a order for an GT Line e 2008. Spec'd with leather electric seats with lumber support. Then told I couldn't have them. No reason as to why. Standard seats didn't have lumber support so cancelled. Mach e looks much nicer anyway. Well worth the extra dosh
 
OP
SJ_Okay

SJ_Okay

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
Feb 25, 2020
Messages
185
Reaction score
99
Location
UK
First Name
Scott
Vehicles
AWD ER Mach-E
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
I had a order for an GT Line e 2008. Spec'd with leather electric seats with lumber support. Then told I couldn't have them. No reason as to why. Standard seats didn't have lumber support so cancelled. Mach e looks much nicer anyway. Well worth the extra dosh
Absolutely!! I’m so glad it came along when it did. Nothing against the Peugeot. Range is not as much of an issue for us in the UK, but it’s not going to be a great drive with the FWD and that battery all up front.
 
Top