Whats better Gas vs Electric?

[JamieGeek]

This is a really interesting article: They basically took a Hyundai Kona EV and a Hyundai Kona 1.6T on the same road trip comparing each.

Its not a short read but worth it...
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/hyu...ndai-kona-electric-vs-2020-hyundai-kona-1-6t/

Note their admission at the end, however: Had they done just a little bit of planning their EV trip would have been cheaper and less time consuming. An EV is a bit different from an ICE and thus you do have to plan a trip a little different from an ICE...

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[Billyk24]

Newbies to EV are going to be shocked by the cost to recharge during long distance travel. More L3 stations are needed and at a lower price.

 

[timbop]

Unfortunately we are all going to have to use the overpriced charging stations for a while so that: EA and others can recoup their startup costs, and so that others see an opportunity and jump into the charging game fostering competition. They don't call it the "bleeding edge" for nothing.

 

[Scufflegrit]

If the cost to recharge on the road is anywhere close to the cost to rent an ICE car + gas, then people with only an EV will most likely just rent an ICE for a trip. This of course slows the adoption of EA's services which slows any potential price decrease. Personally, I don't expect to ever take the Mach-E much more than 50 miles from home. I will not put up with both a high cost for charging and the inconvenience of charging away from home.

 

[Billyk24]

If you are going to just use an EV for short trips around home, then why spend the extra cash for the Mach E, Tesla when the Bolt is a lot cheaper?

 

[jlauro]

If you are going to just use an EV for short trips around home, then why spend the extra cash for the Mach E, Tesla when the Bolt is a lot cheaper?

Because a Bolt doesn't have enough cargo space for many activities, and if you fold down the back row the floor isn't anywhere near level, so it's not good for big items even with 2 passengers.

That said, the Bolt is a lot cheaper and good enough for a lot of daily activities for most...

The Mach E should also have a better quality interior. (Not that alone is enough better for the price difference, but with the range and AWD and 0-60, both are good options to consider for different needs).

 

[JamieGeek]

Because a Bolt doesn't have enough cargo space for many activities, and if you fold down the back row the floor isn't anywhere near level, so it's not good for big items even with 2 passengers.

That said, the Bolt is a lot cheaper and good enough for a lot of daily activities for most...

The Mach E should also have a better quality interior. (Not that alone is enough better for the price difference, but with the range and AWD and 0-60, both are good options to consider for different needs).

Actually with the seats folded down the Bolt holds quite a bit of stuff. I've been able to pack it with as much junk as I can get into my wife's Escape.

 

[jlauro]

Actually with the seats folded down the Bolt holds quite a bit of stuff. I've been able to pack it with as much junk as I can get into my wife's Escape.

Right, but it's not as good for say a large flat screen TV or long table as the Mach E should be. Maybe you can work it out by putting something behind the back seats, but it's just not as convenient.

 

[dbsb3233]

Newbies to EV are going to be shocked by the cost to recharge during long distance travel. More L3 stations are needed and at a lower price.

The equally shocking number there is the time (276 minutes vs 10). Granted, it could have been a bit less with better planning, but still.

The other thing that's somewhat disconcerting is that the most efficient way to plan a BEV road trip is to live in the bottom half of the battery range (to avoid taper penalties). ABRP seems to plan it so you get to the next station at 10%. But that doesn't leave a lot of room for error. Or ability to change plans on the fly, or just drive carefree. That doesn't help assuage range anxiety fears much.

 

[dbsb3233]

If you are going to just use an EV for short trips around home, then why spend the extra cash for the Mach E, Tesla when the Bolt is a lot cheaper?

Because it's much nicer. We spend way more collective time in the vehicle (throughout the year) around home than we do on road trips. A typical driver may do 10,000 miles/yr around home but only 1000-2000 miles on long road trips. 80%+ of our time in the vehicle will be around home.

Plus in a (semi-) performance vehicle like the Mach-e, it's the starts/stops where the performance shines, not the long highway drives.

 

[dbsb3233]

This is a really interesting article: They basically took a Hyundai Kona EV and a Hyundai Kona 1.6T on the same road trip comparing each.

Its not a short read but worth it...
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/hyu...ndai-kona-electric-vs-2020-hyundai-kona-1-6t/

Note their admission at the end, however: Had they done just a little bit of planning their EV trip would have been cheaper and less time consuming. An EV is a bit different from an ICE and thus you do have to plan a trip a little different from an ICE...

That's a good article. And for a 220 mile (one-way) trip, I'd agree that it's probably not a showstopper for most people. One charging stop each way (even if around half an hour) isn't too bad.

But it gets exponentially worse the longer that trips gets. Really just depends on the length and type of drives one anticipates. (And of course, renting a car for long trips is always an option too.)

 

[zhackwyatt]

The equally shocking number there is the time (276 minutes vs 10). Granted, it could have been a bit less with better planning, but still.

The other thing that's somewhat disconcerting is that the most efficient way to plan a BEV road trip is to live in the bottom half of the battery range (to avoid taper penalties). ABRP seems to plan it so you get to the next station at 10%. But that doesn't leave a lot of room for error. Or ability to change plans on the fly, or just drive carefree. That doesn't help assuage range anxiety fears much.

ABRP has a ton of customization, so you can change the 10% to something different.

 

[dbsb3233]

ABRP has a ton of customization, so you can change the 10% to something different.

Yeah I played with that some too. Although I suspect most people will probably stick with the defaults.

My point wasn't really about ABRP per se, but more about why ABRP uses those defaults -- because it's the most efficient pattern. One could bump that arrival buffer up to 20% to feel safer, but to do that it likely means either (a) recharging deeper into the taper curve (costing more time and money), or (b) shorter legs that require more charging stops (and more time).

 

[dbsb3233]

If the cost to recharge on the road is anywhere close to the cost to rent an ICE car + gas, then people with only an EV will most likely just rent an ICE for a trip. This of course slows the adoption of EA's services which slows any potential price decrease. Personally, I don't expect to ever take the Mach-E much more than 50 miles from home. I will not put up with both a high cost for charging and the inconvenience of charging away from home.

That's me too. My plan now is to save the $5000 and stick with the SR battery because I don't think the extra 60 miles (more like 40 at highway speeds) would ever change my choice for which vehicle to drive on a trip (my BEV vs my ICE).

That would change if I had something like a 120 mile daily round-trip commute to work or something (that would push the limits). But I don't. My driving us usually well under 100 miles/day.

I do think we'll see quite a bit of between-city charging station growth though, simply from millions of EVs hitting the roads over the next few years. Even though most won't take road trips, some will, and when it takes 15-40 minutes to charge, it doesn't take many vehicles to fill them up and create demand for more. But for the same reason, rates could remain high. Because each charger can only serve 2-4 customers per hour, there's not a lot of sales volume. That requires a pretty high margin to recover costs and generate profit.

 

[timbop]

I dunno, my old back and bladder don't mind stopping every hour and a half or so. My wife and I are in the preliminary stages of planning a trip from NJ to Charleston SC and Atlanta next year, and for the hell of it I mapped it out with a mach E SR RWD. Not that it matters, but the trip is a combo cruise and visit to the georgia aquarium to swim with the whale sharks. In general I hate to drive more than 8 hours, so we're breaking up the NJ->Charleston and ATL->NJ legs with a hotel stop. We could do the NJ->Charleston in one day, but we'd have to stay somewhere in Charleston until the next afternoon when we can board the ship anyway.

By tweaking the settings a little bit in ABRP and doing a little research in google maps, here's the first leg mapped out (took about 15 minutes to plan):

• Leave home at 10:00 AM after eating breakfast
• drive for 2:40 (arrive @22%), arrive @12:40 at alexandria walmart for half hour charge while eating lunch at adjacent mexican place
• drive 1:24 (arrive @32%), stopping in richmond for 15 minute charge
• drive 1:13 (arrive @29%), stopping in emporia for 15 minute charge
• drive 1:28 (arrive at 10%), stopping for dinner at 6:00 at outback steakhouse at carolina outlets (lots of other places to eat), charge for 40 minutes while eating
• drive 2:00 (arrive at 12%), stop in Florence SC for night. Charge at walmart for 30 minutes next morning while eating breakfast at mcdonalds.
• drive 2:00, arriving in charleston before noon to jump on cruise ship with 30% charge

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