Which Battery and Powertrain Did You Reserve?

[dbsb3233]

I have no direct experience but there were a few batteries replaced by members of the Focus Electric forum. I believe the FFE's battery was something like $10k--but not many paid for that as most of the replacements were warrantied.

If you look at the data it turns out that EV batteries are lasting longer than predicted.

(After 3 years and 30k miles on my Focus Electric I had no degradation when I turned it in.)

$10k would right around the 50-50 point where I might consider a replacement/upgrade 7-8 years down the road, if new batteries at the time provided significantly better capability.

Could also have a little impact on decided whether to pay the $5k extra now to get the extra ER battery pack.

On a related note... anyone know whether the getting the ER raises the back seats? The graphics on the vehicle config page show the ER battery pack sitting just forward of the rear tires. That should be just under the rear seats. I'm guessing it's just an empty void under the rear seats if you don't get the ER.

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[macchiaz-o]

The standard range battery uses the same case, with the hump at the back. It's just got nothing inside the hump. So no impact to rear seat either way.

 

[JamieGeek]

$10k would right around the 50-50 point where I might consider a replacement/upgrade 7-8 years down the road, if new batteries at the time provided significantly better capability.

Could also have a little impact on decided whether to pay the $5k extra now to get the extra ER battery pack.

On a related note... anyone know whether the getting the ER raises the back seats? The graphics on the vehicle config page show the ER battery pack sitting just forward of the rear tires. That should be just under the rear seats. I'm guessing it's just an empty void under the rear seats if you don't get the ER.

Keep in mind that price was for a 2010s vintage 23kWh battery, not a 2020 vintage ~100kWh battery.

 

[dbsb3233]

Keep in mind that price was for a 2010s vintage 23kWh battery, not a 2020 vintage ~100kWh battery.

Yeah I was thinking that too. But at the same time, the price curve on batteries is coming way down too. So maybe it would be about a wash.

 

[macchiaz-o]

The whole pack is warrantied 8 years, 100,000 miles. The warranty covers repair/replacement if the car reports more than 30% degradation, or if it fails.

Also, inside the massive battery container, there are 10 or 12 (SR or ER) individual battery modules that each hold roughly 30 battery cells. Ford's stated that service techs can replace failed modules rather than needing to replace the entire pack. So in some cases, that could reduce service costs after the warranty is over. They haven't said anything about replacing an individual cell, so they probably won't go down to that small of a part during service.

I'm guessing any sort of out of warranty battery service is going to be costly. It's easy to get access to the battery pack, but there are a ton of bolts, a special battery lift is needed, and they'll have to drain and refill coolant.

I've read that batteries are running about $150 per kWh at this point, with costs continuing to come down (for now). So not including labor and other required materials, at today's pricing the full pack is roughly $11k - 15k. Add service department markup and maybe it doubles or triples? I dunno.

 

[J Duce]

I have concerns about expecting much resale value. The improvement curve on battery technology is quite steep right now. Which means it's possible that in a few years, BEVs may be getting far more range and quicker charging times. Kinda like an iPhone 5 vs an iPhone 10.

I fear that resale value will fall rather fast because of that. Faster than an ICE vehicle where a 2015 isn't much different than a 2020 (in terms of functional capability). The difference between a 2021 BEV and a 2026 could be huge, causing resale value to be very weak.

On top of that, age/use degradation on battery capacity works against resale value too. Unlike ICE where a 15 gallon gas tank remains 15 gallons no matter how old the vehicle is.

I wonder what a full battery pack replacement/upgrade costs? (Assuming future batteries will even (physically) fit at all.)

Good points. If I recall, the Ford engineer mentioned that battery packets were replaceable from underneath by a certified dealer. While I think it is highly likely that I would get a newer car by then, (3 to 5 years down the road) I wonder if with battery range and prices going down, that this might be a viable option. Especially if modules remain standard and interchangeable.

 

[dbsb3233]

The whole pack is warrantied 8 years, 100,000 miles. The warranty covers repair/replacement if the car reports more than 30% degradation, or if it fails.

I was thinking less about it failing and more about just opting to buy an upgrade if future batteries have significantly more range and faster charging. But that's probably just wishful thinking rather than being realistic.

I hope battery replaceability is something BEV manufactures take into account in their designs. One of the selling points for BEVs is far fewer moving parts to wear out. Which is supposed to translate to much longer lifespans. The fail-point on longevity is the batteries. If we expect to get 300,000 miles out of a BEV as many suggest, the batteries will probably need to be replace 2-3 times (at least).

 

[eager2own]

I have concerns about expecting much resale value. The improvement curve on battery technology is quite steep right now. Which means it's possible that in a few years, BEVs may be getting far more range and quicker charging times. Kinda like an iPhone 5 vs an iPhone 10.

I fear that resale value will fall rather fast because of that. Faster than an ICE vehicle where a 2015 isn't much different than a 2020 (in terms of functional capability). The difference between a 2021 BEV and a 2026 could be huge, causing resale value to be very weak.

On top of that, age/use degradation on battery capacity works against resale value too. Unlike ICE where a 15 gallon gas tank remains 15 gallons no matter how old the vehicle is.

Of course, none of us know what the tech will be in 5 years. However, keep in mind many had the same concerns about buying a Tesla Model S 5-7 years ago, and those cars have really held up their value compared with other luxury ICE vehicles.
Where there has been a big impact is in vehicles that were introduced as compliance vehicles in CA and OR for primarily lease fleets. An example of this is the Fiat 500e, which sees a huge depreciation in two years. But that is a unique sales model and depreciation is not as related to the tech changes.

 

[JamieGeek]

I was thinking less about it failing and more about just opting to buy an upgrade if future batteries have significantly more range and faster charging. But that's probably just wishful thinking rather than being realistic.
...

That was a common thought in the early stages of many Focus Electric owners but it, sort of, wasn't an option.

I say sort of because around 2015 the Focus got a somewhat larger battery and it turned out to be a pretty much drop in replacement (I don't think we ever found out if it also involved a software update). A few people with older Focuses that needed a battery replacement found themselves with the larger battery. It wasn't offered, however, as an option at the dealer: you only got the new battery if your old one failed.

 

[dbsb3233]

Of course, none of us know what the tech will be in 5 years. However, keep in mind many had the same concerns about buying a Tesla Model S 5-7 years ago, and those cars have really held up their value compared with other luxury ICE vehicles.
Where there has been a big impact is in vehicles that were introduced as compliance vehicles in CA and OR for primarily lease fleets. An example of this is the Fiat 500e, which sees a huge depreciation in two years. But that is a unique sales model and depreciation is not as related to the tech changes.

While true, remember why the Model S still hold value. It's largely because it was so far ahead of the pack on range. In fact a 2015 Model S (210-270 mile range) still compares well with most 2020 BEVs today. While an 80 or 120 mile BEV doesn't.

If 2025 BEVs have 380 miles of range and can 80% recharge in 10 minutes, that could push the resale value of today's BEVs way down. But as you say, there's no way to know how much batteries will improve. They took a big leap in the last 2-3 years (for everyone except Tesla who made that leap a few years earlier). Whether there will be another big leap in the next few years is anyone's guess. But I do know there's still lots of research still being poured into it.

 

[phila]

Beyond the votes I'm really curious WHY people chose the standard vs extended battery and RWD vs AWD. I'm going back and forth so it would help to hear other's thoughts on this.

I'm considering having this be our only vehicle so range will be important even if we don't do extended drives/road trips often and the money saved from only one vehicle will more than justify the $5k premium.

Having been on an EV only for over 1 year now range is the absolute most important factor for an EV. We have only 1 car, an IPace, which is AWD only and we get on well but this thing is also rated at 290miles. We waste a lot of range on AWD which we never really need as we generally do not drive in AWD conditions here. We do realize that we never even get close to the advertised 290miles that we are supposed to get, as like any other EV these numbers will generally never be met in real word driving. Hence I have range as my biggest priority and cargo space as a close second. In both categories the MachE is right up there for its price class, really only being challenged by the upcoming ModelY for now. Obviously price is also a factor.
If i were living in snowy area with long winters then I would opt for an AWD but that really is the only AWD factor for me. You get more performance and stuff like that but the RWD models have great performance already so I can take the additional second to get to 60.
I went for an extended range RWD model and this will be a family vehicle.

 

[Jvanderwoud]

Extended - I want to be able to drive to Tampa and back (200 miles) without worrying

AWD - if I sell it, I don’t want to get stuck when everyone wants AWD

 

[harrysiii]

Extended Range AWD because GT. ?

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