Why owning any new EV today won't be a long-term ownership for many

[SpaceEVDriver]

The biggest improvement I want is for an electric pickup truck with vacation-worthy towing range and capacity, but I don't really care if I get it through more charging stations, faster charging, bigger batteries, or a more efficient drive train, or all of the above.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Even better! And what do the 2022 cars do that the 9 year old models don’t?

Drive themselves with full, Level 5 autonomy -- since 2019 ?

At least one of them has had a brain, I mean screen transplant.

 

[Polar]

You bring up good points. And then when you factor in the costs that are going to be associated with running a car like the MME into the ground, it will speed up that time frame a lot too. With LED headlights at $2K each just for parts, the HVB a lot more, and a ton of other EV parts that are very expensive, the idea of keeping these cars on the road over 8 to 10 years gets really expensive really quick.

My 2012 Leaf has LED headlights - no issues at all. Sure I had to replace the HVB at 54k miles, but it was covered under warranty (off lease AZ car; heat baked it). Car now has 85k miles on it and is still at over 90% capacity (12/12 battery bars) on the replacement battery.

Battery, charger, motor… what are the “ton of other EV specific parts” that will drive up the cost of long term ownership?

There is no compelling reason to replace an old EV vs an old ICE. Unless you want the latest tech, but again same as an ICE vehicle

 

[Polar]

I think the biggest potential issue that will force people’s hand in upgrading is the infotainment system, if it doesn’t age well and becomes laggy, as older computers often do.

Infotainment systems only become laggy because users demand upgrades that exceed the compute capacity of the integrated system. If we stop expecting our old systems to have all the bells and whistles (upgrades) of newer model cars - they’ll work as good as they did when new.

 

[Bmr4MachE]

Why is it safer than electric for, say, a 50-mile commute?
For that matter, why safer than gas for the same 50-miles?

Because you always have a gas engine with you. Doesn't matter if you forgot to charge, if the nearby chargers are down, if the Fordpass up is acting buggy, cold weather killing EV range, etc.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

Android Auto and Apple car play and some have it wirelessly. Adaptive cruise control on many more models. Self-parking. Most of these are luxury touches, that don't move the needle much.

Unless it’s a Tesla. The new ones still don’t have AA or CarPlay ?.

 

[Eraser]

No offense, but I think some of you guys are WAY too optimistic when it comes to the technology side of things. For any tech enthusiasts/professionals know full well, just because a technology exists doesn't mean it will be made available to the average consumer. Although the EV competition is high, auto makers will only go so far to compete with the next company.

For an example, even if a company had the technology to double range with the same capacity battery, they wouldn't do it unless it was necessary to compete (disregard licensing the technology). What they would do is one up the competition by a nominal margin, then leave room in the (preverbal) tank to do the same thing for years to come. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

Consider this, how long did it take for Apple to add displays over 3.5 inches, wireless charging, or high refresh displays to the iPhone? Several years, even though the technology existed well before they made those changes. Ultimately, there was no reason for them to throw everything and the kitchen sink into their flagship product when people were still buying them. Slowly adding those features in when sales start to plateau is the real money maker. Simply rinse and repeat year over year.

Don't forget car tech moves as slow as molasses. As much as I'd love to see things move at a rapid pace, the reality is we'll only see marginal improvements year over year. However it will be 5+ years before those incremental changes add up to anything remotely significant for most consumers. Game changing technology is 10+ years away.

Just my opinion as fellow tech enthusiast and professional.

 

[KevinS]

It will be interesting to see what the EV collector cars will be from 2010-2029 models in the future.

 

[Raymondjram]

It will take a while for a 100% EV to be a smarter long term buy than a PHEV. Give me a PHEV that has a fast charging 50kwh battery (at least 100 miles of EV range) and an Atkinson cycle engine and I'll be all set.

A PHEV is the safest bet for just about any commute.

Honestly the Toyota Rav 4 Prime is close to having my optimal drivetrain. Just need more battery and then some more power to go along with it.

Buy a used Chey Volt instead of that import.

 

[tuminatr]

I do think it will be an interesting next few years. I do also think that Ford could have offered the MME with 800v but chose not to I would assume to keep costs down.

I think the new battery tech, charging, extra range won't come as fast as you think because it would drive up the cost too much. Ford as much and some may argue more than others play to its customer base. Overall EV's are commuter cars.

My use case has changed since buying an EV. I travel for work and now pretty much fly and rent a car. The good part is fewer miles on my car and I am not upset about that.

As for the hotel chargers when I do travel plugshare comes in real handy so does Hotels.com. And I bought a 50a tesla tap so I can charge faster. Funny that many of the j1772 at hotels are 32a sitting right next to a 60a Tesla charger.

As for the rest of the technology in this car, only the driving aids are an enhancement to the last vehicle I had. I actually miss the corner-turning LED headlights my 2013 Lincoln MKZ Reserve had.

Probably my biggest complaint is the lack of a fast-charging network MN, ND, SD, IA, & WI have a total of 8 chargers faster than 62kw. Oh and 4 of those in WI. To that, even a 800v car does not matter because of the lack of fast chargers. Now to be clear there are a bunch of 50kw DC fast chargers but those feel slow when traveling. Also, the 50kw chargers are expensive $.43 / min to charge is common of $5 hookup then $.33 / min "ouch" buy me dinner first

Lastly, winter battery performance is not great.

rant over, happy with the car overall

 

[bp99]

There is no compelling reason to replace an old EV vs an old ICE. Unless you want the latest tech, but again same as an ICE vehicle

I think that the greater integration of the tech with the car will create longevity issues. Same with the latest generation of ICE vehicles as well. Merging everything in to one screen/interface makes replacing outdated components nearly impossible. What happens when the LTE/4G modem can no longer get service? What happens when the infotainment can no longer be updated to current Android Auto/Car Play? Or a new version of Bluetooth is no longer backwards compatible? It's going to be a real pain to get music or navigation at some point.

Older cars, you could at least yank the stereo head unit out and put in a modern replacement. It will be interesting to see if anyone comes up with replacement infotainment modules that can interface with all the other software controls in various makes of cars.

Tesla has at least thought about this. They've offered owners with older generation infotainment upgrades (at a cost). It will be interesting to see how many other makers have thought about that in their designs. If they want to completely own the interface to everything in the car, they need to think about the future and more than just how to get people to keep buying new cars versus making sure cars do not become prematurely disposable.

 

[Jimct]

Some of us are older, and have owned many cars over the years. For many of us, a standard ownership period was maybe 8 - 10 years, sometimes more, the idea of running the vehicle into the ground.

Technology is rapidly changing. Batteries, charging speeds, navigation and driving aids. The model of driving a vehicle into the ground is going to change for many as they realize they can cut a trip's duration significantly and charge less often in the years to come. I'm thinking we'll carefully watch technology for the next few years, and dump any current technology EV once the range doubles or the charging speed halves, or both.

This sums up why I decided to buy, not lease, my next EV. At my age keeping a car 8-10 years (or minimum 3 via lease) means that may be my last car. When it comes to technology I want the latest and greatest life has to offer as long as I'm able to drive, and if it means trading the car in every 1-2 years, so be it. This is a very exciting time for this new generation of vehicles, and I want to soak up as much of it as I can, while I can. At this stage of my life it's not about saving money; it's about spending the money on the very things I've been saving for.

"You can't take it with you", so true.

 

[JRT]

I agree, the issue may not be the MME, but in the case of the USA we have a very large country and what is loved in CA is not even close to what is valued in AL. Case in point charging on trips is an issue because believe it or not there are a lot places we like to go that are not local. The winter range impact was an issue that really bugged me because I was really converting to EV fan. But such a sharp drop in range that made a normal 170 mile trip a stop and charge event was a problem. In addition I have gotten no help from now 2 dealerships and really just hope my MME stays trouble free. I would probably have sold the MME already, but I'm not excited about anything in my price range to replace it.

 

[Blue highway]

No offense, but I think some of you guys are WAY too optimistic when it comes to the technology side of things. For any tech enthusiasts/professionals know full well, just because a technology exists doesn't mean it will be made available to the average consumer. Although the EV competition is high, auto makers will only go so far to compete with the next company.

For an example, even if a company had the technology to double range with the same capacity battery, they wouldn't do it unless it was necessary to compete (disregard licensing the technology). What they would do is one up the competition by a nominal margin, then leave room in the (preverbal) tank to do the same thing for years to come. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

Consider this, how long did it take for Apple to add displays over 3.5 inches, wireless charging, or high refresh displays to the iPhone? Several years, even though the technology existed well before they made those changes. Ultimately, there was no reason for them to throw everything and the kitchen sink into their flagship product when people were still buying them. Slowly adding those features in when sales start to plateau is the real money maker. Simply rinse and repeat year over year.

Don't forget car tech moves as slow as molasses. As much as I'd love to see things move at a rapid pace, the reality is we'll only see marginal improvements year over year. However it will be 5+ years before those incremental changes add up to anything remotely significant for most consumers. Game changing technology is 10+ years away.

Just my opinion as fellow tech enthusiast and professional.

I wonder if the coming onslaught of Chinese cars will change that. Their pace of change is much higher than that of legacy auto.

 

[Trick.Mach-E]

Some of us are older, and have owned many cars over the years. For many of us, a standard ownership period was maybe 8 - 10 years, sometimes more, the idea of running the vehicle into the ground. We did that with many, but not all, of our vehicles. Traded in an old minivan during Cash for Clunkers in 2009, traded in a 15 year old Explorer to buy our 2013 F-150.

Decisions were easier. Am I happy with the vehicle's repair costs, operating costs, and appearance? Do I have the yearn for something new? And maybe, just maybe, is there some "new thing" that I have to have?

Now, with technology rapidly changing, that timeframe for many of us is going to get much shorter. I was already planning a new strategy as we entered retirement of owning new vehicles every few years, especially as we have access to Ford's A-Plan. The current market had me thinking of accelerating that, because of the combination of driving a newer vehicle coupled with making thousands in profits.

In our 8 months of charging experience, we came upon more than a handful of older Level 2 chargers, barely capable of charging the Mach-E from 10% to 100% overnight, such as at a hotel. We also realized that often it's not worth the trouble of finding a slower level 2 charger if you're only going to be somewhere for an hour or so. One hotel's level 2 charger was inoperative, while their Tesla charger might have worked (no Tesla Tap in our trunk yet). A semi-regular destination hotel has a few Level 2 chargers, upgraded after we stayed there in 2019 and had issues with their obsolete chargers. They put in new chargers which we discovered when we returned in 2021. Sounds great, right? Except they are only 5.3kW. Plugging in at 10% didn't give us a full charge by morning.

This was recently reinforced as we plan a trip to a state park with our son and his family, and decide whether to take the Mach-E or the F-150. Considered cost, considered time to get there (11 hour trip, with stops, in F-150, add at least 2 hours with the Mach-E). Then I started looking at charging opportunities at the destination. There's several DC chargers within 30 minutes or less, but the park has an EV charger. That's where PlugShare comes in, and I realize that the charger is a Level 1 charger, putting out a whopping 1.8kW of pure, raw power powered by 120v. Do the math - with a 10% loss in efficiency, that's 1.62kW. Take the 88kW battery, arrive with 20%, and go to 100% to leave. 88 x .8 = 70.4. 70.4 / 1.62 = 43.5 hours. Even if I didn't need the car every day, hogging the charger for 2 full days is pretty rude.

Luckily the campground has many RV sites, each with a nice 50 amp 14-50 outlet. I've gotten them to agree to let us use one as long as they have one open, even though we're going to be in a cabin. We'll use the portable charger and charge up overnight.

This reinforces to make sure you review your planned stops in PlugShare, and always check with your lodging destination as to what chargers exist, whether they operate, and what speed they operate at. Make sure you talk to someone knowledgeable (took us 4 attempts via email to get actual facts from the park office).

Technology is rapidly changing. Batteries, charging speeds, navigation and driving aids. The model of driving a vehicle into the ground is going to change for many as they realize they can cut a trip's duration significantly and charge less often in the years to come. I'm thinking we'll carefully watch technology for the next few years, and dump any current technology EV once the range doubles or the charging speed halves, or both.

We have our Mach-E because my wife wanted one. My wife is not in to antiquing or wine tasting. She loves cars both on-road and especially off-road. So when she said she wanted to try the Mach-E I didn't want to discourage her. I did give some of the drawbacks, some of which she found out first hand after the purchase but I'm not one to say "don't do it" as I think it's great she is willing to embrace everything auto related.

We probably won't keep the Mach-E long term just because more and more my wife wants to try out other cars. Plus she misses her Audi Cabriolet and a Porsche 911 is on the bucket list so I think her next car will be a 911 Cabriolet.

As for Hybrid's and/or EV cars though we now embrace both and they are great and we look forward to what the future brings. I was going to replace my Fusion Plug-in Hybrid with a F-150 Lighting but I'm holding off. I think I'd rather have a Bronco Raptor or Ranger Raptor as my next daily driver... that is unless Ford comes out with the F-150 Lighting Raptor!