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Why the Mustang Mach E is better than the Tesla Model Y

GoGoGadgetMachE

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Off-topic, but I am surprised at the number of reviewers who mispronounce the first syllable of Tesla. It’s not pronounced like pez candy but with a ‘t’, instead sounds like the women’s name Tess.
so many Stans are like Nicholas Cage I guess then
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dbsb3233

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100% a basic embedded system design failure. For all the talk around Tesla being good at software and being modern and so on, this is an idiotic failure on their part of the highest order. The one thing they are supposedly really good at, they actually... aren't good at. I've made this point elsewhere on here though back when we first talked about these failures.
IKR? It seriously never occurred to them that the memory chip could fill up? And to automatically delete older data if it got close?
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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IKR? It seriously never occurred to them that the memory chip could fill up? And to automatically delete older data if it got close?
there was some early discussion - although I don't know if this was accurate - that it was worse than that, that they weren't even using proper write-leveling early on, so they were burning out the chip, which is much worse. (*)

(*) I am very deliberately oversimplifying the problem of not doing write-leveling and not defining "write-leveling" as this just doesn't matter for this level of discussion.
 

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I was sitting in a parking spot and a model y parked 2 spots over so I was able to get a really good look for once. There is something odd about the way it looks. I think it has to do with how the front windshield doesn't flow with the rest of the body like the other models. The front is also stubbier.

Mach-e, seems to flow a bit better and the front is a bit longer so it works out. But, with the front grill area flat, I can see how its aerodynamics would be affected.

I sat in an S performance and you could certainly feel the G's putting you in the seat. It also kept me there from 0 - 60.

My dealer has told me I'll be able to have an extended test drive, so I'll be taking it on my route to work to see how it feels sitting in it for 25 minutes at a time.

I have no problems bailing on this car if it feels too much like I'm getting in a car and not a crossover.

At 56k this needs to feel like what I'm paying for.
 

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IKR? It seriously never occurred to them that the memory chip could fill up? And to automatically delete older data if it got close?
This isn't simply about memory filling up.. this has to do with the fact that memory can only be written to and read from so many times before the chip fails.

This is a common misconception about flash memory. I had to do reseach on this very topic as a system I work on has the same flaw (sd cards). The only way I could work around this is storing multiple copies of the same data and calling the data randomly so I wasn't reading the same data all the time from the same sector.

If you left a machine running, It would fail after 3 months like clockwork.
 

TheVirtualTim

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IKR? It seriously never occurred to them that the memory chip could fill up? And to automatically delete older data if it got close?
It sounds like a write failure. Flash storage has a limited number of "writes" based on how the technology works. Each "write" is fractionally destructive to the chip. "Reads" are free... you can read from flash memory an unlimited number of times with no degradation ... it's "writes" that are the problem.

Modern flash uses a memory-leveling technology because original memory would just write to the first free block of storage ... the first block on the device if it's an empty device. So as you erase files, the blocks near the start of the memory range get used over and over. The last block on the device will likely never be used ... unless every single last block is actually needed. SOO... these days "memory leveling" uses a technique to cause the devices to use all memory roughly an equal number of times.

There are techniques to deal with these challenges to prolong the useful life (use of better flash memory, using over-sized storage, and ... planning for serviceability.)
 

dbsb3233

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I have no problems bailing on this car if it feels too much like I'm getting in a car and not a crossover.

At 56k this needs to feel like what I'm paying for.
That's my sentiment too. If it were too much "car" and not enough "SUV/crossover", I'd be looking elsewhere. But after spending thousands of hours following the vehicle over the last 13 months, and then getting to sit in one at a Machetour stop, I'm quite confident in it now. I still wish the whole thing was about 3" taller (ground clearance, driver seat, and roof line), but it's close enough. It sits just a couple of inches lower than my Escape in all those dimension.
 

dbsb3233

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There are techniques to deal with these challenges to prolong the useful life (use of better flash memory, using over-sized storage, and ... planning for serviceability.)
As cheap as flash memory is, you'd think they'd just pick #2 (oversized storage).

Or even just include a card reader slot so a fresh card could be popped in every 2 years or something.
 

DBC

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You have a big one coming soon for all model y models on the heat pump also. SIster goes to pick hers up Friday. They told her last week it's coming, Each model y will have to be fixed.
This is why friends don't let friends buy Teslas. How did you let this happen? ;)

Looks like the Model S-like battery degradation might persist in other models. I'm really grateful Ford gave the Mach-E a larger battery buffer.
Definitely will show up in all models. I expect the MME to be similar. With respect to the MME, the buffer isn't all that large and all Li batteries are gong to degrade like this.

The problem is when the pack degrades like the Leaf's.
 

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ok I'll get into the details I said I wasn't going to get in to I guess. pretty sure I've talked about this elsewhere on here.

This isn't simply about memory filling up.. this has to do with the fact that memory can only be written to and read from so many times before the chip fails.

This is a common misconception about flash memory. I had to do reseach on this very topic as a system I work on has the same flaw (sd cards). The only way I could work around this is storing multiple copies of the same data and calling the data randomly so I wasn't reading the same data all the time from the same sector.

If you left a machine running, It would fail after 3 months like clockwork.
another way to work around it is proper write-leveling in the flash controller - standard memory cards don't do this. standard SSDs (solid-state drives) on the other hand, even consumer SSDs, do, because a standard operating system setup reads and writes data all the damn time. Windows is worse than this than Linux and Unix, because of the Registry, but it's ultimately a problem for every OS that isn't configured for embedded use. The write-leveling can do tracking of flash cell state and/or do error detection to relocate writes when appropriate. To facilitate this, extra storage is set aside that isn't visible to the user of the storage that is used as the back-fill.

still another way to do it is to filter the writes, which is generally part of how you would configure a more general-purpose OS for embedded use. Windows shipped a feature literally referred to as the "Embedded Write Filter" that now ships as the Unified Write Filter (UWF) feature for this use. The idea is that you're tossing writes that don't actually matter and/or consolidating writes (e.g. if the same sector is written to multiple times, just persist the last version when you choose to commit the changes back to storage).

of course, you can also do both if necessary. And, no matter what you do, the limited write cycles will burn you in the end if you let it.

It all depends on your embedded system use case, design, anticipated lifetime, and cost/benefit analysis.

It sounds like a write failure. Flash storage has a limited number of "writes" based on how the technology works. Each "write" is fractionally destructive to the chip. "Reads" are free... you can read from flash memory an unlimited number of times with no degradation ... it's "writes" that are the problem.

Modern flash uses a memory-leveling technology because original memory would just write to the first free block of storage ... the first block on the device if it's an empty device. So as you erase files, the blocks near the start of the memory range get used over and over. The last block on the device will likely never be used ... unless every single last block is actually needed. SOO... these days "memory leveling" uses a technique to cause the devices to use all memory roughly an equal number of times.

There are techniques to deal with these challenges to prolong the useful life (use of better flash memory, using over-sized storage, and ... planning for serviceability.)
aka write-leveling. but again this isn't a "modern flash" issue - it's a "targeted use case" scenario. If you're making a consumer SD card for use in cameras, they will never see enough writes to a particular cell over the life of the card to make it matter. If you're making a consumer SSD though as I said earlier it's there - it has to be. This is generally in the drive's controller logic that sits between the actual storage and the computer storage interface (SATA, NVMe, whatever).

As cheap as flash memory is, you'd think they'd just pick #2 (oversized storage).

Or even just include a card reader slot so a fresh card could be popped in every 2 years or something.
at this point it seems clear that they didn't know enough to know how to do the design properly for "permanent" storage. As for swapping the card in and out, we can only guess as to what the design constraints were here.
 

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Yeah I didn’t understand that either.
I think he is discussing automatic garage door opening due to proximity based rules...he turned that off and now must 'manually' use a menu choice embedded in the Tesla Screen of all Things. The taped remote solution was for a previous car that was without homelink, no?
 

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Just to get everyone off the delay thread . . . this is a M3, but the first thing is panel issues - STILL
 

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Why better then a Tesla: Mach-E's aren't cat killers

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/17/business/jamie-lynn-spears-tesla/index.html

New York (CNN Business) Jamie Lynn Spears called Tesla "a secret cat-killer" and told CEO Elon Musk that he owes her a couple new feline friends.

The actress, singer and sister of Britney Spears said in a since-deleted Instagram video that her cats were run over by a Tesla they never heard coming. Teslas, like other electric cars, run quieter than vehicles with gas-powered engines.

"We have now lost — I don't want to tell you how many cats — because they don't hear the Tesla (TSLA) crank and unfortunate things happen and it's really devastating and tragic for everyone involved," she said in her Instagram post, according to multiple news reports that preserved the video.

"Elon Musk, let's figure this out," she said. "You owe me a couple cats."
Spears recommended that Teslas emit noises that bother animals so they move out of the way. She suggested that this update would ensure that animals "aren't caught off guard and things don't end in a very tragic way."

As it turns out -- Teslas and other electric cars are required to do this, as of September 2020. The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration now requires electric cars to emit sounds of at least 43 decibels when they're traveling at speeds less than 18.6 miles per hour. That's about the level of noise your dishwasher makes.

"This standard will help to ensure that blind, visually impaired, and other pedestrians are able to detect and recognize nearby hybrid and electric vehicles," NHTSA said in its order.
Europe has similar requirements: As of July 2019, all new models of electric and hybrid vehicles developed and sold in the European Union must come equipped with an acoustic sound system.

Spears later walked back her initial post in another Instagram post -- which she also deleted. She said she "did not run over any cats" and Tesla is "not to be blamed," several news outlets reported. The actress also made it clear that "user error is admittedly involved."

Tesla did not immediately respond to CNN Business' request for comment.
 
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