Will our EV tax credit be affected by new administration?

[dbsb3233]

If solar is that good why are we not trying to enforce solar power on cars to help?

Too small of a space on a car roof for solar to make any significant difference. Need large arrays exposed over many hours to produce much, especially for the heavy load that a BEV uses.

Plus a large% of cars park in garages, are shaded by buildings or trees, etc.

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[dbsb3233]

How big of solar power plant would be needed to supply the united states?
how big for wind energy to supply the united states?

Not sure of the numbers, but space for solar and wind farms is down the list of obstacles. The bigger issues are cost, daylight only for solar and inconsistent wins (often requiring expensive storage solutions to time-shift it), supply of that many panels and turbines, etc. Also many locations are poor for wind, and consistent sun. Many days in a rows without wind and with weak sun is a real problem if you don't have sufficient backup. And that much redundant backup is expensive to maintain if it can't consistently generate revenue to pay for itself.

The "duck curve" effect is one of the problems...

https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/confronting-duck-curve-how-address-over-generation-solar-energy

 

[DBC]

Both of which get a whopping $7500 federal tax credit already. As do all manufactures except Tesla and GM (who've exceeded their credits already). No good reason to change it (the one person continually saying it should double and wants $trillions more taxpayer money spend notwithstanding, of course).

That is certainly not how they would look at it. Nissan will run out of credits fairly soon and BMW isn't that far behind. VW has a good number left but intends to sell at least 100K electric vehicles a year. So yes, they have very good reasons to want to change. That's a no brainer.

Can see it part of an infrastructure plan that also includes charging, but can't see it being an extension of what exists now. Given that the credit was crafted for (by) GM and tailored for the Chevy Volt, I'd think the replacement would look quite different. No idea what this would look like but off the top of my head: probably less and probably only for pure BEVs and probably not a credit.

 

[bluestarct]

But you have to draw the line somewhere. I know some (one here anyway) would love unlimited taxpayers $'s thrown at EVs, but nearly everyone else is more reasonable and sees there should be limits. 200,000 $7500 tax credits (which really just subsidize the manufacturer as a pass-thru in pricing) is $1.5B per manufacturer. That's a LOT of subsidy. Plus the whole point of the program is to get more manufacturers to build EVs. Without a limit, a company like Tesla would just get permanent subsidies on all their cars, while others don't. That's not right, or fair IMO.

This way they all have incentive to "get in the EV game". With a hefty $1.5B taxpayer subsidy. If they can parlay that into successful products, great. If they can't, I don't think they should get more taxpayer handouts.

Let me be clearer. I was focused on the cut off based off income.

There should be a ramp down for manufacturers sales as they ramp production. This helps them transition their structure away from ICE.

A constant subsidy is bad idea no matter where it is.

 

[DBC]

Isn't it fun making plans to spend $trillions of other people's money. ?

Since I don't have a mortgage that is exactly how I feel about the mortgage interest deduction. There is the government, handing out tax rebates to greedy homeowners!

On the other hand, capital gains, donations of appreciated securities, and various tax shelters are obviously fantastic ideas.

Amusing how people always feel their subsidy is justified but other people's aren't.

 

[dbsb3233]

That is certainly not how they would look at it. Nissan will run out of credits fairly soon and BMW isn't that far behind. VW has a good number left but intends to sell at least 100K electric vehicles a year. So yes, they have very good reasons to want to change. That's a no brainer.

Can see it part of an infrastructure plan that also includes charging, but can't see it being an extension of what exists now. Given that the credit was crafted for (by) GM and tailored for the Chevy Volt, I'd think the replacement would look quite different. No idea what this would look like but off the top of my head: probably less and probably only for pure BEVs and probably not a credit.

Oh there's no denying auto manufacturers would LOVE more subsidies (even indirect). Who wouldn't? But that isn't what I meant by "no good reason to change it".

It would also be rather unfair to change the rules now, after manufacturers have planned around it. It would screw Ford, for instance, to suddenly change the rules and start giving Tesla and GM $7500 more credits. There's no question that Ford and others took that into consideration when planning the timing for their BEV releases, knowing that (for instance) Tesla used up their 200k credits, giving the MME an edge over the Model Y. Ford could afford to put more in the MME that way, and recover those hefty initial development costs quicker. Giving Tesla $7500 per car again would just make it harder for Ford and others to bring new BEVs to market, because Tesla would take more of that market share.

 

[Regularmache]

I've enjoyed the discussion but the amount of room for free thinking appears to have disappeared.

 

[dbsb3233]

Since I don't have a mortgage that is exactly how I feel about the mortgage interest deduction. There is the government, handing out tax rebates to greedy homeowners!

On the other hand, capital gains, donations of appreciated securities, and various tax shelters are obviously fantastic ideas.

Amusing how people always feel their subsidy is justified but other people's aren't.

Oh I'd get rid of ALL deductions/credits/breaks, and just lower the base rates accordingly. No more special treatment. That would take away much of the power of government to manipulate our lives too.

 

[Maric]

Where I live in NorCal, all the homes are built with solar. I actually 'sell' excess energy back to the grid. Even on cloudy days, I generate enough electricity to run my home. People have very antiquated perceptions on solar. Solar today is not what solar was 10 years ago. Panels gets better and more efficient, and the cost to store energy has dropped dramatically and will continue to do so.

A 20% reduction in use of legacy power systems over 10 years is easily achievable.

 

[dbsb3233]

Let me be clearer. I was focused on the cut off based off income.

There should be a ramp down for manufacturers sales as they ramp production. This helps them transition their structure away from ICE.

A constant subsidy is bad idea no matter where it is.

Went back and re-read that. I misunderstood your initial post. Yes, I agree.

 

[DBC]

If solar is that good why are we not trying to enforce solar power on cars to help?

How big of solar power plant would be needed to supply the united states?
how big for wind energy to supply the united states?
...
The coal miners paid the price for years and now those people are not needed no more and we just wash our hands of them. I do find that sad.

California gets 47% of its electricity from renewable, 46% from natural gas, and the rest from nuclear. The renewables are a mix of different things, including hydro. You could easily generate much more with solar and wind -- there is a lot of very sunny very windy spaces. That would be the easy part. The hard part is that power has to be transmitted, and no one wants a transmission line running through their yard.

So the issue isn't the size of the generating facility it's the placement of the transmission lines.

Having solar panels on a car roof won't work because the roof is too small and unlikely to be placed so that the panels were efficient.

Yes the coal miners are no longer needed. Fewer coal jobs more solar jobs. it is unfortunate but that's how capitalism works. Not too many ice men or milkmen around these days. Even in my lifetime so many jobs have been eliminated. How many secretaries do we have these days? Working at the phone company used to be a good gig but now it's gone. The steel plant where I was born is closed so there go all the steel workers. And your company, Ford, is working hard to eliminate truck drivers. To some extent this is a price that needs to be paid for economic development. What is sad -- and unacceptable to me -- is that we don't have a more comprehensive and effective system for dealing with these dislocations. They just get kicked to the curb and everyone steps over them.

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