Would you trade your frunk for a heat pump?

Would you trade your frunk for a heat pump?


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Ride_the_lightning

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If the compressor is inefficient then it will turn electricity into heat sort of like the resistive heater, thats true. BUT that heat does not go in the coil, it is exhaust heat... basically this heat would remain under the hood, heating the frunk and not the cabin. It's totally possible to have a heat pump draw a lot of energy, and generate waste heat, but not put enough warmth through the coil.
I realize that, which is why the Tesla heat pump captures the waste heat. This is the best explanation I could find.

https://aircondlounge.com/how-tesla-heat-pump-works/

Again, very complex and still has zero additional benefit in the extreme cold people on here are complaining about. But it would improve range during spring and fall in much of the US.
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MachEZRt1

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I realize that, which is why the Tesla heat pump captures the waste heat. This is the best explanation I could find.

https://aircondlounge.com/how-tesla-heat-pump-works/

Again, very complex and still has zero additional benefit in the extreme cold people on here are complaining about. But it would improve range during spring and fall in much of the US.
Like you said, not much benefit in extreme cold.https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/tesla-owners-losing-heat-extreme-cold-heat-pumps-failing-badly/
 

kram

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I'm sure every manufacturer has different methods for implementation. Using the Nissan LEAF as a reference here, though, plumbing-wise there isn't a huge difference between the heat pump and standard A/C. The most significant difference is the presence of two diverter valves and a second condenser located in the dash in line with the evaporator. No doubt the inclusion of active thermal management for the battery in the case of the Mach-E would complicate this a bit, but I suspect based upon my own observations of the space below the frunk there would be adequate room for a few additional components (mostly hoses) to support a heat pump. No need to give up the frunk (not that I ever use it, but, Âżpor que no las dos?).

Me personally, I'd prefer a heat pump setup with a resistance heater as backup. Like some here, it seldom gets cold enough here to prevent efficient use of a heat pump.
The last couple of mornings here in New England have been just above 0 degrees and the vehicle heats up very quickly - would not change anything
 

Chicago-E

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Like you said, not much benefit in extreme cold.https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/tesla-owners-losing-heat-extreme-cold-heat-pumps-failing-badly/
Exactly why having both the heat pump and electric heater is ideal. You get reliability of the electric heater plus efficiency of the heat pump in moderate temps. Tesla took a big risk removing the electric heater and only having a heat pumps. Losing heat in extreme temps like some of these Teslas are is very dangerous. I would not be surprised if this results in some type of regulation.
 

MachEZRt1

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Exactly why having both the heat pump and electric heater is ideal. You get reliability of the electric heater plus efficiency of the heat pump in moderate temps. Tesla took a big risk removing the electric heater and only having a heat pumps. Losing heat in extreme temps like some of these Teslas are is very dangerous. I would not be surprised if this results in some type of regulation.
Couldn’t agree more! That’s why home heat pumps have auxiliary heat. MOST of the time heat pumps are more efficient, but have a limit for extreme cold.
 


lightamanonfire

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Could’t that be done with the existing air conditioning system if Ford wanted to? I mean, a heat pump in cooling mode is basically an air conditioner, no?



Not the one in the RAV4 Prime.
I've always understood that the difference between A/C and a heat pump is that a heat pump goes both ways and A/C only cools. I always see heat pumps in vehicles listed separately, though, and I'm not sure why.
 

phidauex

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I'd rather have the frunk than the heat pump, if forced to choose, but I do think it would be good for Ford to have a heat pump option for future models. I'd probably pay another $500 for it.

And yes, a lot of people here seem to have experience with older air source residential heat pumps that is coloring their views. Modern low temp heat pumps are pretty impressive. I have a 12k BTU minisplit that heats and cools the main part of my home, with the original forced air natural gas ~80% efficiency unit kept as aux heat, mostly for the side rooms that the minisplit doesn't get well.

It has a reduction in heating capacity at low temperatures (down to about 65% capacity at 17F, and down to 35% at -13F), but the coefficient of performance stays above 2.0 all the way down to -13F. It has a basepan heater to prevent icing, but does not have a resistive aux heater. The thing works great - even in cold temperatures it is considerably cheaper to operate than the natural gas heater, and the only reason we run the natural gas is for warming the side rooms, or to make up for the loss of capacity on extremely cold nights (but even then the heat pump continues to work and blow warm air at good efficiency).

Another way of looking at it is the HSPF, which is a rating of the seasonal average efficiency for heating (including both the very cold and less cold times). My unit is 10.5 (>8.0 is considered "good" for high efficiency low temp heat pumps). By comparison, a resistive heater is 3.41 all the time. If the heat pump in a car had a similar efficiency then you would, over the course of the winter, see an overall improvement, even if the improvement on the actual coldest day of the year would be smaller than on an average cold day.

So I don't think it is make or break, but there are good low temp heat pumps, and they do work. I understand why Ford didn't want to introduce too many new things all at once, and it doesn't bother me, but I think it is worth them researching, and I'd pay a bit more for it as an option on a future model.
 

TruWrecks

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There is an empty cavern of usable space to put a heatpump under the rear cargo area. Why tamper with the front?
 

woody

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my (home heating) heat pump runs 80% at -5 degrees F.
It works well with single digit temperatures.
We do not get enough sub zero temperatures for the heat kit to turn on, but we have one(built in) as a back up just the same.
It is of course outside and you have to stand right next to it to even know it is working (incredibly quiet, nothing compared to average everyday heat pumps (often called A/C units). It is coupled with a blower, very similar to one of those old fossil fuel burning forced air heaters. But a few decibels quieter.
Have a heat pump water heater as well. Sound is minimal (located in furnace room, which is 1350 cubic feet), it does not run all the time, therefore we do not even notice it.
Perhaps they could design a heat pump that was quieter and more efficient for cars as well? Technology.
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