WSJ: The Electric-Vehicle Road Test

[macchiaz-o]

Eight reporters from the Wall Street Journal were loaned fully electric vehicles. Here's their video, documenting life right after the switch to a fully electric lifestyle:

https://www.wsj.com/video/series/sh...E390D3C3-5437-4E64-B2F9-8AD8598DEE5A?mod=e2tw

There's much discussion about long charge times, difficulty getting to working charging locations, and living without things like air conditioning to preserve needed range. A lot of these problems seem to be attributed to the reporters just having jumped in to this different way of driving. It takes a while to grok the different charging options, speeds, and proper trip planning.

@dbsb3233, I was thinking of you through most of this video.

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[Bob]

Wished I had my Mach-E for my 20 mile trip to Costco today.

 

[Mister Mitch]

I think that people are getting the charge times WRONG.

Yes, I agree, if you drive your BEV to empty, like you would your ICE vehicle, then your going to have a LONG charge time.

But, I think The Mrs is going to love the Mach-E. Why? Pit stops. Lots and lots of pit stops. But this will only happen during longer road trips. Drive an hour to an hour and a half and stop, juice up the car for 15 to 20 minutes while the Mrs has her pee break. Gives me time to walk around and stretch my legs. The car gets 50 to 60 miles of charge and were on the road again. You will obviously get a larger charge when you stop for a meal.

So your doing short hops along your journey. Never really filling the battery, just getting a top up. Minimal cost and your on the road again. You can have the heater or the A/C full blast when your only doing short hops. Your never tired, as your always stopping for a break.

My longest trip is to my middle brother's house, which is normally a 19 hour trip. But I can break it up into two days. One pit stop at Mum's house, which if 5 hours away and then the 14 hour trip the next day. OK, so the 5 hour trip likely becomes 6. The 14 hour trip becomes 16. Just more pit stops. Legs will be walked and pee breaks will be plentiful.

I will get a Level 2 charger for home, so the car will always be "topped off". Longest trip we do when were home, is about a 1/2 hour to the bigger city that is near us. I don't see this being an issue. Even when the Mrs is driving her family around, getting groceries and doing their banking. We got the car, they don't. (Yea, lucky us...)

 

[timbop]

Honestly, I think that video is probably indicative of what the "average person" who doesn't frequent EV online fora and research the issues in detail will experience. The lady that had such a hard time finding stations that were not broken is a real concern regardless of knowledge. Clearly the other lady who was making paper notes of charging locations to take with her has no idea of ABRP app nor the nav app in the car (assuming her car had one that found stations). The crux of the matter is why she needed to do research rather than just getting in her car and driving off - and that's why BEV's continue to be such a niche. We're all spoiled by the ubiquity of gas stations and the convenience of a quick fill up, and unfortunately that is unlikely to translate into BEV charging infrastructure. Gas stations are so widespread because it is impractical for drivers to fill their ICE at home, so EVERY DRIVER goes to a gas station several times a month. The economics of public BEV charging are far different - the whole allure of the BEV is that charging at home is cheaper and easier, so the majority of drivers will only go to public charging stations on the far less common occurrence of a trip beyond their battery. All the manufacturers love to tout the statistic of how infrequently a driver will need public charging, not realizing that is a disincentive for public charging companies to invest heavily. Unless the manufacturers not run by Elon Musk pony up (excuse the pun) a great deal of cash to subsidize the rollout and maintenance of public charging, BEV sales will struggle. Here in the US, it is clear that the oil industry has enough lawmakers in their pockets to prevent a concerted effort from government doing it, and I suspect that is also the case worldwide except for china.

 

[dbsb3233]

@dbsb3233, I was thinking of you through most of this video.

Ha! Yep, they really hit the nail on the head for a lot of the issues I had.

Some of those issues can be mitigated some, as you said, with better planning. And some people will live with the compromises for all-around use. But I think it's going to come down to most of the mainstream market being limited to people with secure home-charging where the vehicle doesn't need to be used for hardly any distance driving.

But even just 30% of the US market is like 5 million vehicles a year. That's a helluva lot.

 

[silverelan]

Honestly, I think that video is probably indicative of what the "average person" who doesn't frequent EV online fora and research the issues in detail will experience. The lady that had such a hard time finding stations that were not broken is a real concern regardless of knowledge. Clearly the other lady who was making paper notes of charging locations to take with her has no idea of ABRP app nor the nav app in the car (assuming her car had one that found stations). The crux of the matter is why she needed to do research rather than just getting in her car and driving off - and that's why BEV's continue to be such a niche. We're all spoiled by the ubiquity of gas stations and the convenience of a quick fill up, and unfortunately that is unlikely to translate into BEV charging infrastructure. Gas stations are so widespread because it is impractical for drivers to fill their ICE at home, so EVERY DRIVER goes to a gas station several times a month. The economics of public BEV charging are far different - the whole allure of the BEV is that charging at home is cheaper and easier, so the majority of drivers will only go to public charging stations on the far less common occurrence of a trip beyond their battery. All the manufacturers love to tout the statistic of how infrequently a driver will need public charging, not realizing that is a disincentive for public charging companies to invest heavily. Unless the manufacturers not run by Elon Musk pony up (excuse the pun) a great deal of cash to subsidize the rollout and maintenance of public charging, BEV sales will struggle. Here in the US, it is clear that the oil industry has enough lawmakers in their pockets to prevent a concerted effort from government doing it, and I suspect that is also the case worldwide except for china.

So for both the Bolt EV driver in Michigan and I-PACE driver in NC, I thought at first were full of it. Then I went to Plugshare and realized they were right, they were basically in CCS deserts. Tesla has Superchargers everywhere those two wanted to go.

The fact that the Bolt EV is so limited in GM's home state of MI should be motivational for both Chevy and Ford to invest in getting infrastructure out there.

 

[dbsb3233]

Honestly, I think that video is probably indicative of what the "average person" who doesn't frequent EV online fora and research the issues in detail will experience. The lady that had such a hard time finding stations that were not broken is a real concern regardless of knowledge. Clearly the other lady who was making paper notes of charging locations to take with her has no idea of ABRP app nor the nav app in the car (assuming her car had one that found stations). The crux of the matter is why she needed to do research rather than just getting in her car and driving off - and that's why BEV's continue to be such a niche. We're all spoiled by the ubiquity of gas stations and the convenience of a quick fill up, and unfortunately that is unlikely to translate into BEV charging infrastructure. Gas stations are so widespread because it is impractical for drivers to fill their ICE at home, so EVERY DRIVER goes to a gas station several times a month. The economics of public BEV charging are far different - the whole allure of the BEV is that charging at home is cheaper and easier, so the majority of drivers will only go to public charging stations on the far less common occurrence of a trip beyond their battery. All the manufacturers love to tout the statistic of how infrequently a driver will need public charging, not realizing that is a disincentive for public charging companies to invest heavily. Unless the manufacturers not run by Elon Musk pony up (excuse the pun) a great deal of cash to subsidize the rollout and maintenance of public charging, BEV sales will struggle. Here in the US, it is clear that the oil industry has enough lawmakers in their pockets to prevent a concerted effort from government doing it, and I suspect that is also the case worldwide except for china.

Yep, there's just too much focus on public chargers, IMO. They do a disservice by trying to "sell" public charging (which has inherent drawbacks). There's no way public charging can compete with ICE refueling. It's not even close. So any marketing focus on that is frankly going to be a loser.

What they need to push is the big advantage of home charging. The ease of it (without ever having to stop at a retail station again), and the cost savings (roughly 2/3rds less for fuel at residential rates). 200+ miles of range is plenty for many people's around-home usage. And much of the public has a 2nd ICE car for anything longer.

Target the suburban buyers. The typical American family with a house, a garage, 2 kids and a dog. Who have a daily commute of <100 miles.

 

[timbop]

Yep, there's just too much focus on public chargers, IMO. They do a disservice by trying to "sell" public charging (which has inherent drawbacks). There's no way public charging can compete with ICE refueling. It's not even close. So any marketing focus on that is frankly going to be a loser.

What they need to push is the big advantage of home charging. The ease of it (without ever having to stop at a retail station again), and the cost savings (roughly 2/3rds less for fuel at residential rates). 200+ miles of range is plenty for many people's around-home usage. And much of the public has a 2nd ICE car for anything longer.

Target the suburban buyers. The typical American family with a house, a garage, 2 kids and a dog. Who have a daily commute of <100 miles.

Absolutely agree that accentuating the positive side of home charging is a great idea, but I have to say that I disagree that public charging isn't also important to remedy. Even the suburbanites with 2 cars and short commutes are going to have reservations about spending $50,000 on a car that they perceive can't go more than 75 miles from home.

IMO, Ford and all the rest are going to have pour resources into subsidizing (and publicizing) DCFC charging. Ford's pulling together EA, EVgo, etc under one convenient account is a great start, but it can't end there.

 

[Bob]

I think that people are getting the charge times WRONG.

Yes, I agree, if you drive your BEV to empty, like you would your ICE vehicle, then your going to have a LONG charge time.

But, I think The Mrs is going to love the Mach-E. Why? Pit stops. Lots and lots of pit stops. But this will only happen during longer road trips. Drive an hour to an hour and a half and stop, juice up the car for 15 to 20 minutes while the Mrs has her pee break. Gives me time to walk around and stretch my legs. The car gets 50 to 60 miles of charge and were on the road again. You will obviously get a larger charge when you stop for a meal.

So your doing short hops along your journey. Never really filling the battery, just getting a top up. Minimal cost and your on the road again. You can have the heater or the A/C full blast when your only doing short hops. Your never tired, as your always stopping for a break.

My longest trip is to my middle brother's house, which is normally a 19 hour trip. But I can break it up into two days. One pit stop at Mum's house, which if 5 hours away and then the 14 hour trip the next day. OK, so the 5 hour trip likely becomes 6. The 14 hour trip becomes 16. Just more pit stops. Legs will be walked and pee breaks will be plentiful.

I will get a Level 2 charger for home, so the car will always be "topped off". Longest trip we do when were home, is about a 1/2 hour to the bigger city that is near us. I don't see this being an issue. Even when the Mrs is driving her family around, getting groceries and doing their banking. We got the car, they don't. (Yea, lucky us...)

Being I was new to the BEV world my initial thought after I placed my reservation for the Mach-E was I would plug into my 240v outlet in the garage every time I came home to keep it topped off. After becoming more savvy about Li-Ion batteries and my desire to have a BEV for 10-20 years driving less than 7,500 miles per year my thoughts have changed. Li-Ion BEV batteries seem to be rated for 2,000 cycles with some loss of capacity each recharge. I have also read that there is a recharge %/remaining range % sweet spot(maybe 20% to 80%) for Li-Ion batteries to operate in for optimal life. With no desire to 'pony' up $10,000 to replace the battery 10 years down the road I will not be plugging my Mach-E in every night.

 

[silverelan]

Agreed @timbop. Home charging is great and a key advantage to ownership for an EV but OEMs are going to have to push the infrastructure if they want this to succeed.

Sorry @dbsb3233, but ubiquity of both L2 charge points and rapid DC charging stations is paramount to EVs being more than a niche product. 20-30min recharge stops are perfectly fine for most people provided there's at least 210 miles of freeway range with probably many being perfectly fine with 150 miles of freeway driving.

 

[dbsb3233]

Absolutely agree that accentuating the positive side of home charging is a great idea, but I have to say that I disagree that public charging isn't also important to remedy. Even the suburbanites with 2 cars and short commutes are going to have reservations about spending $50,000 on a car that they perceive can't go more than 75 miles from home.

IMO, Ford and all the rest are going to have pour resources into subsidizing (and publicizing) DCFC charging. Ford's pulling together EA, EVgo, etc under one convenient account is a great start, but it can't end there.

There certainly needs to be some public charging available for people at the margin and others that take rare longer drives. But my point is that even if there's far more chargers, BEVs still fall short of their ICE counterparts when it comes to retail fueling (due to slow charging times combined with major degradation of range in cold weather, high speeds, using accessories, etc).

More chargers will help some but public charging will still always be a significant limiting factor for BEV sales intended for distance driving. Which is why I think the bulk of BEV sales will be to people using them for around-home use.

 

[silverelan]

There certainly needs to be some public charging available for people at the margin and others that take rare longer drives. But my point is that even if there's far more chargers, BEVs still fall short of their ICE counterparts when it comes to retail fueling (due to slow charging times combined with major degradation of range in cold weather, high speeds, using accessories, etc).

More chargers will help some but public charging will still always be a significant limiting factor for BEV sales intended for distance driving. Which is why I think the bulk of BEV sales will be to people using them for around-home use.

Except we see that many Tesla owners tend to ditch fossil cars entirely and take their cars on long road trips without issue using the Supercharger Network. Their sales numbers reflect Tesla's deliberate strategy to build out a network of high powered chargers to enable long distance travel.

 

[dbsb3233]

Agreed @timbop. Home charging is great and a key advantage to ownership for an EV but OEMs are going to have to push the infrastructure if they want this to succeed.

Sorry @dbsb3233, but ubiquity of both L2 charge points and rapid DC charging stations is paramount to EVs being more than a niche product. 20-30min recharge stops are perfectly fine for most people provided there's at least 210 miles of freeway range with probably many being perfectly fine with 150 miles of freeway driving.

I don't think they need to be 90% of all vehicle sales to a success. 30% of US vehicle sales is doable, IMO, for mostly around-home use. That would be 5 million vehicle sales/year. I'd consider that more than niche. It's a major segment.

I'm not saying there doesn't need to be good coverage for charging stations. There does. But I think it would be unrealistic to expect BEVs to go much beyond maybe 30% market share, because station availability is only part of the compromise of retail charging relative to ICE refueling that lots of consumers just won't buy into.

 

[dbsb3233]

Except we see that many Tesla owners tend to ditch fossil cars entirely and take their cars on long road trips without issue using the Supercharger Network. Their sales numbers reflect Tesla's deliberate strategy to build out a network of high powered chargers to enable long distance travel.

And you'll always get some that will be willing to do that with frequent stops and long charging times. And that's great for those willing to.

But I'm talking about the rest of the people that aren't Tesla fans or BEV fans who tend to be more willing to compromise because they're advocates. The average Joe won't be nearly as willing to sit at that retail charger for 30 minutes when they compare that to sitting at a gas station for 3 minutes. (Especially when paying a $10k-$20k premium for the vehicle.)

That's why I think people who can almost entirely home-charge will be the vast majority of the buyers as BEVs get very far into the mainstream vehicle market.

 

[jlauro]

Being I was new to the BEV world my initial thought after I placed my reservation for the Mach-E was I would plug into my 240v outlet in the garage every time I came home to keep it topped off. After becoming more savvy about Li-Ion batteries and my desire to have a BEV for 10-20 years driving less than 7,500 miles per year my thoughts have changed. Li-Ion BEV batteries seem to be rated for 2,000 cycles with some loss of capacity each recharge. I have also read that there is a recharge %/remaining range % sweet spot(maybe 20% to 80%) for Li-Ion batteries to operate in for optimal life. With no desire to 'pony' up $10,000 to replace the battery 10 years down the road I will not be plugging my Mach-E in every night.

My understanding is the problem isn't plugging in every night, it's charging to 100%... If the Mach E can be told to stop charging at 80% full and not to charge to 100% full you should be find plugging in every night.

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