My Total Rebate pile (California Purchase)

[Bigfeets]

Tesla lost the tax credit long ago - there is a cap of 200,000 cars being sold and then the credit decreased in increments every 2 quarters for roughly 6 quarters until it was zero. For those that feel compelled to explain it, the full $7500 applies until the END of the calendar quarter AFTER the quarter in which the 200,000th BEV was sold by the manufacturer in the USA. The credit would then be $3750 for 2 more quarters, and $1875 for the next two. After that it would be 0. So if Ford hits 200,000 BEVs sold in the USA on May 19th 2022 (Q2 2022) the $7500 is available for all Ford BEV purchases until Sept 30 2022 (end of Q3 2022). From Oct 1 2022 (beg of Q4 2022) to March 31 2023 (end of Q1 2023) it would be $3750, and from April 1 2023 (beg of Q2 2023) to Sept 30 2023 (end of Q3 2023) it would b $1875


Teslarati do not argue for a reason, they argue for the sake of argument*


Correct.

As I understand it, the Build Back Better bill that has not been passed by the Senate, yet, would lift the cap of 200,000, thus allowing Tesla and Chevy buyers to qualify for the Federal tax credit once again. As for MME, the BBB bill could threaten its qualification by establishing a price cap of $55,000 to qualify. I'm not sure how that would be figured, but with recent price increases in base, extended range battery, and AWR, the 2022 MME would seem to be a "high priced" EV that would not qualify for the Federal rebate. If this bill or these provisions of the bill are not sustained, then MME Fed tax credit is secure until Ford production from Cuautitlan Assembly Plant reaches 200,000. China plant production doesn't count, apparently. (Cuautitlan did around 65,000 MME units in 2020 and 2021, and more than half of that went to NON-US countries. About 26,000 2021 went to US. Also, Ford hasn't said what the 2022 production targets will be, only that they intend to increase over 2021, tripling production in 2023. If they doubled 2021 production in 2022 (to 130,000 units), Ford would still not quite reach the 200,000 threshold until the end of 2022 production, assuming no recalls, parts shortages, or other stoppages.

So, the question is: Does shipping cars to NON-US countries that are produced in Mexico by Ford potential cause US customers to lose the Federal tax credit? Is that what happened to Tesla? (Their plant is in California and allocation to NON-US countries is unknown to me.)

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[phil]

So, the question is: Does shipping cars to NON-US countries that are produced in Mexico by Ford potential cause US customers to lose the Federal tax credit? Is that what happened to Tesla? (Their plant is in California and allocation to NON-US countries is unknown to me.)

The answers are no, and no.

 

[Bigfeets]

The answers are no, and no.

Please explain yourself. Is the Federal tax credit terminated when an BEV manufacturer sells 200,000 units of its production (regardless of assembly plant location or delivery location), or 200,000 units sold in the US?

 

[jlauro]

Please explain yourself. Is the Federal tax credit terminated when an BEV manufacturer sells 200,000 units of its production (regardless of assembly plant location or delivery location), or 200,000 units sold in the US?

(Not Phil, but agree with his answers...)

Federal tax credits are only impacted by units sold in the US. There is some potential for this to change in the future, but shipping to non US countries have no impact on those sold in the US (and that is likely not to change), and so those vehicles sold outside the US are not counted toward the 200,000 count.

Tesla has same rules, so that is why the same answer.

 

[mburtsvt]

Please explain yourself. Is the Federal tax credit terminated when an BEV manufacturer sells 200,000 units of its production (regardless of assembly plant location or delivery location), or 200,000 units sold in the US?

First part - Only when the manufacture sells 200,000 in the US regardless of where they were made. They can make as many as they want...it's the first 200K sold in the US by that manufacture that will get the full tax credit.

 

[phil]

First part - Only when the manufacture sells 200,000 in the US regardless of where they were made. They can make as many as they want...it's the first 200K sold in the US by that manufacture that will get the full tax credit.

It's actually more than 200k that get the full credit, under current law. After 200k units sell, any additional units sold in the subsequent 3-6 months also get the full credit. The credit amount begins to decline only after that.

 

[Bigfeets]

It's actually more than 200k that get the full credit, under current law. After 200k units sell, any additional units sold in the subsequent 3-6 months also get the full credit. The credit amount begins to decline only after that.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I got the misperception due to Tesla and Chevy no longer qualifying for the tax credit. I have no knowledge of their EV production numbers or sales. Also, I saw a proposed change in the BBB bill to relieve Tesla and Chevy of the cap limitation but adding a cap on EV unit cost to qualify for the tax credit. The former clearly benefits those two EV automakers, but the latter would seem to threaten MME (increases in Premium base price, ext. battery, and AWD options) tax credit with $55K cap. If the bill passes with these features, some Ford and Tesla BEV won't qualify. Do I have that right?

Nope. The existing law retains the cap of 200,000 EV units for US market Federal tax credit. Ford is was around 120,000 such units last June 2021. There is some opinion that Ford will hit the cap in middle/late 2022. Then, the MME units sold after that would have diminished Federal tax credit for a quarter following the quarter that the cap was reached, then none. The BBB bill is currently blocked by the Senate.

 

[jlauro]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I got the misperception due to Tesla and Chevy no longer qualifying for the tax credit. I have no knowledge of their EV production numbers or sales. Also, I saw a proposed change in the BBB bill to relieve Tesla and Chevy of the cap limitation but adding a cap on EV unit cost to qualify for the tax credit. The former clearly benefits those two EV automakers, but the latter would seem to threaten MME (increases in Premium base price, ext. battery, and AWD options) tax credit with $55K cap. If the bill passes with these features, some Ford and Tesla BEV won't qualify. Do I have that right?

Yes, that's correct, but so far those changes haven't passed, and if it does pass it's likely the cap will change. It may be an issue for higher end models like the GT, and chances are the $7500 credit will still apply until Ford goes over 200,000 sold in the US even if additional credits don't apply.

 

[jlauro]

BTW, Ford is upto 149,595 sales in the US as of 9-30-21. (includes Lincoln Corsair PHEVs, Escape PHEV, etc...)

 

[Bigfeets]

BTW, Ford is upto 149,595 sales in the US as of 9-30-21.

Ahah. does that mean the 200,000 cap applies to all models of EV Ford produces NOT just to MME? (To my knowledge, Ford has made about 65,000 MME by end of calendar 2021, with only about 26,000 going to US buyers.) I'm new to Ford and to ordering a new car, so I'm learning a lot about such things. How does one judge when they would hit a production cap that limits the tax credit if it's not just about the MME?

 

[Mach1E]

Ahah. does that mean the 200,000 cap applies to all models of EV Ford produces NOT just to MME? (To my knowledge, Ford has made about 65,000 MME by end of calendar 2021, with only about 26,000 going to US buyers.) I'm new to Ford and to ordering a new car, so I'm learning a lot about such things. How does one judge when they would hit a production cap that limits the tax credit if it's not just about the MME?

Yeah, it’s not per model, it’s per manufacturer.

How do you judge? Google the sales numbers.

But like has been said, it’s not a hard stop at 200,000. It tapers off months after that number is hit.

 

[JSD23]

So the last check came in, (finally) for my rebates on my FE ....... Drum roll please..... (and , yes I did get my car at MSRP).

“Ford Options” rebate - $2500
X-Plan - $675
California Point of sale rebate - $1500
Fed Tax credit - $7500
California Clean Vehicle Rebate Project - $4500
Fed Tax Credit for home charger - $400

Total - $17,075

Amazing! Could you please share links to help me do more research and apply? Also is the California Clean Vehicle Rebate Project still offering $4500?

Thank you Master Jedi!

 

[nvabill]

So the last check came in, (finally) for my rebates on my FE ....... Drum roll please..... (and , yes I did get my car at MSRP).

“Ford Options” rebate - $2500
X-Plan - $675
California Point of sale rebate - $1500
Fed Tax credit - $7500
California Clean Vehicle Rebate Project - $4500
Fed Tax Credit for home charger - $400

Total - $17,075

Wow, that’s a big chunk of change!

 

[abr]

And that people is why California taxes are so high and the state is on the verge of bankruptcy!

It's also a reason why there is far more EV adoption in CA than other places - they have incentivized purchases.

 

[Mach1E]

It's also a reason why there is far more EV adoption in CA than other places - they have incentivized purchases.

I thought it was from all the smug.

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