Article: Ford CEO Jim Farley prepares for 'way smaller' EV market than expected

[Doobster6]

The difference is that automobiles could do more and go faster than horses whereas EV's are actually slower on a trip when you factor in time to recharge/fuel compared to an ICE vehicle. Bottom line until EV's can be recharged as fast as an ICE vehicle can be refueled they are a compromise not an advancement.

You’re not wrong when long trips are considered and it’s why we don’t use our MME for that. So I agree, EVs can’t be your ‘only’ car if you take long trips. But we use ours almost exclusively for ALL of our other daily driving needs, refilling our ‘tank’ each night from our Level 2 charger at home in the garage. We use my wife’s very nice Infiniti for our trips.

The TRUTH is that Americans average driving fewer than 40 miles each day, including work commutes; I recall reading that 90%+ of Americans drive fewer than 150 miles per day. Those numbers mean that they can wake up every day to an EV with more than enough range to cover those needs if they charge overnight at home. For this use case, EVs are already a perfect solution.

So every multi-car family in the US can justify having one of them be an EV and using their ICE cars for their infrequent long trips, like we do. If they are part of the 50% who actually drive 40 or fewer miles each day, they can even refill those miles by charging from a 110v outlet, and avoid the cost of installing a level 2 charger.

So EVs are, right now, a realistic option for tens of millions of multi-car families. Factor in the greatly reduced periodic maintenance costs as well as the enhanced performance, and the arguments in favor become ever more compelling.

There are other considerations that work against EV adoption however, although not the ones typically heard. Modern EVs DO NOT catch fire and burn up with regularity as many disinformation outlets like to report. The data shows that ICE cars are twenty times more likely (per 100,000 cars) to ignite than EVs. That said, EVs are relatively new, and Teslas in particular drive the US roads in far greater numbers than other makes. So far a robust alternate spare parts supply chain has not materialized for any EVs, even Teslas (despite their numbers) and they remain very expensive to repair after an accident. This can often be reflected in higher insurance premiums, which I researched in advance and which then erased any gas savings I might have enjoyed driving a Tesla.

But at least in my own experience, that’s about it for negatives! We absolutely love our MME and intend to stay with an EV of some make when its lease expires in 2027.

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[nvabill]

You’re not wrong when long trips are considered and it’s why we don’t use our MME for that. So I agree, EVs can’t be your ‘only’ car if you take long trips. But we use ours almost exclusively for ALL of our other daily driving needs, refilling our ‘tank’ each night from our Level 2 charger at home in the garage. We use my wife’s very nice Infiniti for our trips.

The TRUTH is that Americans average driving fewer than 40 miles each day, including work commutes; I recall reading that 90%+ of Americans drive fewer than 150 miles per day. Those numbers mean that they can wake up every day to an EV with more than enough range to cover those needs if they charge overnight at home. For this use case, EVs are already a perfect solution.

So every multi-car family in the US can justify having one of them be an EV and using their ICE cars for their infrequent long trips, like we do. If they are part of the 50% who actually drive 40 or fewer miles each day, they can even refill those miles by charging from a 110v outlet, and avoid the cost of installing a level 2 charger.

So EVs are, right now, a realistic option for tens of millions of multi-car families. Factor in the greatly reduced periodic maintenance costs as well as the enhanced performance, and the arguments in favor become ever more compelling.

There are other considerations that work against EV adoption however, although not the ones typically heard. Modern EVs DO NOT catch fire and burn up with regularity as many disinformation outlets like to report. The data shows that ICE cars are twenty times more likely (per 100,000 cars) to ignite than EVs. That said, EVs are relatively new, and Teslas in particular drive the US roads in far greater numbers than other makes. So far a robust alternate spare parts supply chain has not materialized for any EVs, even Teslas (despite their numbers) and they remain very expensive to repair after an accident. This can often be reflected in higher insurance premiums, which I researched in advance and which then erased any gas savings I might have enjoyed driving a Tesla.

But at least in my own experience, that’s about it for negatives! We absolutely love our MME and intend to stay with an EV of some make when its lease expires in 2027.

Agreed, I think EV's can coexist with ICE vehicles as each has it's positives and negatives. As for the fire deal I don't know all the statistics but, I think it scares people that, at least the perception, EV's will catch fire in your garage while charging while ICE vehicles maybe do not.

 

[cooltatts]

I disagree with the “long road trips” fears but for myself I drive Mississauga, Ontario to Montreal, Quebec which is about 750km (or about 475 miles I think). Takes a short 20 minute top-up in Kingston and I’ve still plenty of clicks left for touring a bit of Montreal. Do this trip about three times a year. Toronto to Ottawa can be done on one charge.

How often and how far are these American roadtrips which stop people buying EVs? Are you cross country traveling? How many times a year would someone do that?

 

[phil]

My car, my decision and zero feelings of living off the charity of others with a handout.

If it makes you feel any better, it was never charity. It was extortion.

 

[Tampamike]

I disagree with the “long road trips” fears but for myself I drive Mississauga, Ontario to Montreal, Quebec which is about 750km (or about 475 miles I think). Takes a short 20 minute top-up in Kingston and I’ve still plenty of clicks left for touring a bit of Montreal. Do this trip about three times a year. Toronto to Ottawa can be done on one charge.

How often and how far are these American roadtrips which stop people buying EVs? Are you cross country traveling? How many times a year would someone do that?

We’ve been road tripping ours since we got it when it first came out. As soon as Canada opened up after COVID we drove all the way up to Quebec City then down, with several stops, to Stratford and then meanderEd back to NY, Philly then back to FL. That was in the, pretty much, EA only days. We’ve done other long trips on a regular basis. I drive to Key West (400+ miles) every other month or so. It’s been our only car since we got it. I don’t always take the interstates either - they’re easy now. Road tripping this car has improved by leaps and bounds and keeps getting better. Most non-EV drivers still think it’s a nightmare, which I try to dispel at every opportunity.

 

[ChehRob]

It probably is worrisome for most of us before we take our first longer road trip.

 

[stoopid]

Not everyone has access to charging at home ( * ), which means until charging at a charging station is fast [think 5, not 20-40 minutes] it's going to keep a majority of people stuck driving ICE vehicles.

( * ) Imagine the infrastructure expense building out roadside or 'wireless' under the pavement / parking spot charging. People renting in apartments, especially in older cities/suburbs with on street parking, which is a huge percent of people are never going to see charging at home unless they run an extension cord (which isn't feasible and is likely illegal in most places due to potential fire risk).

The EV market is reaching current saturation. Tech leap needs to happen before the next bump in market growth will happen. Newer battery chemistry (more density and compatible with faster charging) in the pipeline is going to help. That's still not a "tomorrow" reality, maybe next decade. The dilemma for car makers is keeping the smallish EV market afloat until then.

 

[Jimrpa]

Helsinki Stockholm by Munchausen. The ICE people have been brainwashed. You can't help them.

I think Farley is speaking about the US market, not the European market?

 

[Jimrpa]

Those same historians will remind you that EVs were being sold right along side ICE cars back then too.

Why didn’t EVs make it 120 years ago? Because they were too expensive, lacked range, were slow to charge and lacked charging infrastructure.

Sound familiar?

Electric motors are amazing now. Batteries still suck and aren’t great for the environment either.

What we need is a better fuel source to propel the electric motors. Not trying to just make a “better battery.”

It isn’t a lack of awareness that keeps someone from buying an EV. It’s the price and their individual use case.

I have an idea: let’s put a diesel-powered generator in the frunk to power the electric motors and replace the battery pack with a huge diesel fuel tank

 

[Mach1E]

The data shows that ICE cars are twenty times more likely (per 100,000 cars) to ignite than EVs.

This is absolutely false.

This point gets repeated often here and elsewhere but there was 1 company that completely made this up and everyone keeps repeating it.

We don’t know the frequency of car fires by automobile type because no legitimate source tracks this data.

But it’s definitely not 20:1. I’m guessing your data came from the unknown “AutoinsuranceEZ.”

Here is a legit source fact checking it:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40163966/cars-catching-fire-new-york-times-real-statistics/

 

[Billyk24]

EV on long road trips is no problem for me following a basic routine of drive 2 hours- charge 20 minutes. The only exception is towing which presents its own issues.

 

[Mach1E]

EV on long road trips is no problem for me following a basic routine of drive 2 hours- charge 20 minutes. The only exception is towing which presents its own issues.

Does that 20 minutes include the time it takes to get to the charger as well as the time it takes to get back on the road?

Road trips are fine as long as you don’t mind some extra planning and aren’t in a hurry.

Based on the number of people on the highway going 15+ over the speed limit vs those putting along at slower speeds in the right lane, we know who the “in a hurry” vs the “take your time” people are.

Just had a single day 6 hour round trip drive yesterday for work. Did it all in 3/4 of a tank in my wife’s Lincoln. Zero chance you could convince me to take the Mach E when I do that same trip about once a month.

Left my house at 8am and got home near 11 pm. In the Mach E? Would have had to leave earlier and probably get home around midnight. Hard pass.

 

[astrorob]

I have an idea: let’s put a diesel-powered generator in the frunk to power the electric motors and replace the battery pack with a huge diesel fuel tank

don't laugh, that guy "the ingineer" showed up at the first silicon valley nissan leaf meet with a helicopter jet turbine + generator towed behind a leaf. he didn't have it hooked up yet but was preparing to try to jury rig it into the HV system. the leaf chief engineer was just standing there staring and scratching his head.

 

[MrLoganRoss]

Looking at sales number trends for GM, which remains focused on building a true EV platform, it seems that Jim is making excuses for Ford’s failure to fully commit and work through the painful first years. It’s not a winning strategy.

Don’t get me wrong. I love my lighting and my mache. But they will likely be my last Fords if they decide to simply offer economy EVs. They need a range of vehicles (from Economy to Luxury to Big Truck). It doesn’t help that the Ford recalls are a pain and Ford is screwing around with approving repairs for a major paint defect on the mache.

It just seems that Jim is makes too many decisions based on the latest news and doesn’t have confidence in his own long term strategy. It’s sad.

 

[MrLoganRoss]

Looking at sales number trends for GM, which remains focused on building a true EV platform, it seems that Jim is making excuses for Ford’s failure to fully commit and work through the painful first years. It’s not a winning strategy.

Don’t get me wrong. I love my lighting and my mache. But they will likely be my last Fords if they decide to simply offer economy EVs. They need a range of vehicles (from Economy to Luxury to Big Truck). It doesn’t help that the Ford recalls are a pain and Ford is screwing around with approving repairs for a major paint defect on the mache.

It just seems that Jim is makes too many decisions based on the latest news and doesn’t have confidence in his own long term strategy. It’s sad.

This video says it all (in extreme detail):

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