Is my Maps problem in my phone or CarPlay?

[Larry Paul]

In my case the MME’s own nav works fine all the time, though it‘s vastly inferior to Apple Maps, Google Maps, amd Waze in every other way.

I’m quite sure that CarPlay makes no use of the built-in GPS.

Not sure why the MME is the ONLY car that has my Apple Maps go crazy. Between cars I own with CarPlay and probably 75+ other cars that I have rented on business trips over the years that use CarPlay...the only car that is confused...is the Mach E.

The car is either blocking signals or getting some data from the car. It makes no sense.

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[CentralCoastCalifornia]

I had this laggy/low accuracy bug in Apple Maps about 2 months ago. Restarting the Mach-e infotainment system seemed to resolve it. I tried other various things to troubleshoot including moving the phone from my pocket to the charge pad and using a wired connection, but those did not help. I'm sure it's a bug in iOS. I haven't had the issue in awhile, so it's possible it was fixed in either iOS or Ford Sync updates.

The GPS signal for Apple Maps (and Google Maps) comes from the iPhone, not the car. CarPlay is essentially an external monitor for your iPhone that lives in a portion of the Mach-e infotainment screen. The iPhone just projects some UI onto the Mach-e screen. The only data the iPhone gets from the car is the battery level and feedback from your touches/gestures on the screen. It can't access the car's GPS or any other data.

 

[Larry Paul]

What I am certain of:

Apple Maps and or CarPlay has never been confused for me in or out of any other car but the Mach E. (I have used it with many many rental cars and several of my own).

I have had a dozen or more times in the MachE that Apple Maps has been confused with its location when used withCarPlay.

I have had 3x where the car was charging at home- but the Ford GPS thought it was parked between 0.2 miles away to 0.97 miles from my home.

There is something odd about how The GPS works in and or with the MachE.

 

[Tangible]

The GPS signal for Apple Maps (and Google Maps) comes from the iPhone…

I’m sure you know this, but for those who don’t: No GPS signals ever “come from” the phone. The satellites only transmit; the phones only receive.

With regard to GPS knowing it’s home, if there’s a garage involved that makes seeing enough satellites difficult.

I am now having better experience with the phone in a shirt pocket instead of a side pants pocket. But that wasn’t necessary for over a year. Something has changed.

 

[CentralCoastCalifornia]

I’m sure you know this, but for those who don’t: No GPS signals ever “come from” the phone. The satellites only transmit; the phones only receive.

With regard to GPS knowing it’s home, if there’s a garage involved that makes seeing enough satellites difficult.

I am now having better experience with the phone in a shirt pocket instead of a side pants pocket. But that wasn’t necessary for over a year. Something has changed.

Yeah, I was just trying to state it simply to make it clear the iPhone is not pulling data from the car's GPS receiver. The signal comes from a set of satellites, the iPhone pulls map data over a cellular connection and creates a unified map with location from GPS and map data from Apple's servers. iOS 17 will allow customers to download map data to be stored locally on the phone, but until then map data will come live from Apple servers. The location will always come from satellites.

 

[Tangible]

So the logical conclusion is that two things are combining to cause the problem:

1. The MME’s interior is a better Faraday cage than some other vehicles.

2. Something in the phone’s software is causing the phone to be less good at receiving GPS signals than it was.

 

[Larry Paul]

So the logical conclusion is that two things are combining to cause the problem:

1. The MME’s interior is a better Faraday cage than some other vehicles.

2. Something in the phone’s software is causing the phone to be less good at receiving GPS signals than it was.

I basically agree that it is possibly the first item, but not the second, since I have had this issue on zero cars other than the Mach E…I think it is the Mach E, however, with that said, I have not had a failure of the iPhone GPS inside the car in quite some time-even though I just had the Ford GPS off by 0.2 of a mile last week.

What I am confused about is I don’t think that Ford‘s GPS antenna is inside the car...but it too gets confused on where it is…about the same distance as I have seen the Apple Maps be off by - but not recently.

To me the logical conclusion is: There is something unique about the Mach E that confuses all GPS receivers (both phones and the car itself).

 

[Ravensfan1996]

It doesnt happen to me that often but when it does its because my phone is in my pocket. Once i remove it and place it on the charging pad it goes back to normal. I think when its in your pocket depending which way its facing it doesnt know whats up from down. just a guess.

 

[Larry Paul]

It doesnt happen to me that often but when it does its because my phone is in my pocket. Once i remove it and place it on the charging pad it goes back to normal. I think when its in your pocket depending which way its facing it doesnt know whats up from down. just a guess.

At least in my case, my phone is always on the charging pad area. It is never in my pocket when I drive. Regardless...this is unique to the MME.

 

[YunniorO]

Regardless...this is unique to the MME.

I can tell you for certain it is not unique to the Mach-E. I’ve driven multiple vehicles where it’s happened there as well. You can also find multiple reddit threads from BMWs to Nissans. I can’t say for sure why it happens, but it doesn’t seem to be unique to any specific vehicles.

It could very well just be the design of certain vehicles like materials used in and outside of the vehicle .

 

[Larry Paul]

I can tell you for certain it is not unique to the Mach-E. I’ve driven multiple vehicles where it’s happened there as well. You can also find multiple reddit threads from BMWs to Nissans. I can’t say for sure why it happens, but it doesn’t seem to be unique to any specific vehicles.

It could very well just be the design of certain vehicles like materials used in and outside of the vehicle .

Interesting. Never had it happen in any of dozens and dozens of rented cars including GM, VW, BMW, Audi, Ford, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Chrysler (or any of 3 GM vehicles I have owned with CarPlay) starting about 9 years ago when I first tried CarPlay.

Literally no issues on any other car but the Mach E. It used to happen often in the Mach E where CarPlay went stupid, but has not happened for a long time now...but the Ford Nav has gone stupid as recently as Thursday when the car started charging immediately and thought it was 0.2 miles away from home (and also the altitude was off by over 700' from my actual location (the car said I was 700' in the air from my actual position).

Perhaps some other cars do this...but I am curious what models go stupid like the Mach E.

 

[NewGuy]

I’m quite sure that CarPlay makes no use of the built-in GPS.

Yeah, I was just trying to state it simply to make it clear the iPhone is not pulling data from the car's GPS receiver.

Where are you guys getting this information? I’m not an app developer, but everything I can find about CarPlay online says that the car’s GPS antenna is what provides the location information to the iPhone. There are even reports about cars/head units that don’t have native navigation still have a gps antenna so they can work with CarPlay.

I’m having this experience in my Mach E. I had this in another car as well and the solution that I found online, which worked for me, was to change my lightning cable. I guess, for some reason, the gps info was getting garbled going from the car to the phone through the cable. Once I changed to an Apple branded cable, I never had another issue. The problem in the Mach E is that even when plugged in, it still seems to use wireless CarPlay. I’m thinking if I turn off wireless and strictly use a quality lightning cable, the problem will go away.

 

[OH2AZ2OH]

This was an early Job 1 adopter problem, specifically with the phone on the wireless charging pad. Moving the phone to the non-charging side used to work. Eventually, the problem disappeared for me, but I don't know when/why. But it has started showing up again for me within the last few weeks. I switch between using a charging cable and the wireless charging pad depending on length of drive and phone charge level, so I am not 100% sure if it is only happening on the charging pad or not.

 

[astrorob]

Where are you guys getting this information? I’m not an app developer, but everything I can find about CarPlay online says that the car’s GPS antenna is what provides the location information to the iPhone. There are even reports about cars/head units that don’t have native navigation still have a gps antenna so they can work with CarPlay.

I’m having this experience in my Mach E. I had this in another car as well and the solution that I found online, which worked for me, was to change my lightning cable. I guess, for some reason, the gps info was getting garbled going from the car to the phone through the cable. Once I changed to an Apple branded cable, I never had another issue. The problem in the Mach E is that even when plugged in, it still seems to use wireless CarPlay. I’m thinking if I turn off wireless and strictly use a quality lightning cable, the problem will go away.

please provide references for your first paragraph. it doesn't make any sense for the phone to have its own GPS radios, which of course work independently of any car you might own when you are inside your house, in someone else's car, at work, etc., and then switch to the car's GPS, of unknown quality to apple, when you get in a car. it's a recipe for disaster for apple (or google for that matter.)

GPS data can't get garbled independently of other data going over the lightning cable. that's just not how digital data transport works. more likely, you were using a crappy lightning cable which was coupling electromagnetic interference into the phone and disrupting the various radios in the phone. that's definitely a thing.

the only times i've had trouble with CarPlay GPS in my MME is when the weather was bad outside - heavy rain. that definitely attenuates the signals coming from the various GPS satellites.

there's an easy way to prove that the MME's cabin is a better faraday cage than other cars - there's an app called GPSDiagnostic in the iOS app store, which will display how many birds the phone has acquired and the signal strength from each. you should be able to see a difference in the GPS signal quality by moving the phone around the interior of the car, sitting on the phone, opening the door, and getting out of the car entirely.

 

[NewGuy]

@Tangible

please provide references for your first paragraph. it doesn't make any sense for the phone to have its own GPS radios, which of course work independently of any car you might own when you are inside your house, in someone else's car, at work, etc., and then switch to the car's GPS, of unknown quality to apple, when you get in a car. it's a recipe for disaster for apple (or google for that matter.)

Almost every comment I can find online about similar issues state that the gps location data comes from the car.
Here’s a thread from the CarPlay subreddit about it. A quick google search will find hundreds more.



But, more officially, here it is from Apple…

“Sensor information is important to CarPlay.

CarPlay needs location information from the vehicle so that the map's app works well. Speed and GNSS information can be provided. Every vehicle needs to know its speed. Speed information is used by iPhone for dead reckoning and is critical if the vehicle does not have a GPS or GLONASS receiver. GNSS information includes latitude and longitude if the vehicle has that capability.

Satellite location information from the vehicle is used in addition to the iPhone's sensors to determine the location of the user. This data from the vehicle may be better since a larger antenna can be integrated into the car. This is the recommended configuration since it will result in the best maps user experience. Sending satellite location information to iPhone is required if the vehicle has the technology on board. GNSS information is also required for any system supporting wireless CarPlay since it's more likely that the phone will be in a pocket, bag, or somewhere where the phone itself has poor reception.”

Source video. You can pull up the transcript and search that for “location”.

https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2016/722?time=774

What’s your source for the location coming from the phone?

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