My Trip to Detroit Auto Show and Meetings with Ford

[Mirak]

Gonna have to agree with @DevSecOps on this one. The list I’m seeing from @ChasingCoral isn’t really a bug fix list. It’s mostly a list of enhancements. Ford loves to brainstorm enhancements - that’s how we get to half baked stuff like Charge Assist. Instead of fixes to basic software problems that have existed for over two years.

Sorry guys, but I guess I’m just never gonna be in the cool kids club because I’m not gonna pump sunshine for a seat at the table. It is beyond ridiculous that Ford refuses to recognize the bugs, let alone fix them.

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[Jimrpa]

If you read our comments in various threads you'll hear what we are able to share.

So, you’ve made finding out about your experiences into a scavenger hunt? Will you give us hints where to look? ???

 

[Mirak]

All the complaints? They seem fully aware and seem to be working on most of them.

I’m… not sure that they are. Because the bugs I (and many others) have identified can’t possibly take over two years to fix. I get priorities, but these should be relatively small fixes. They could have found a way to fit them over two years if they really cared.

 

[Mach1E]

Gonna have to agree with @DevSecOps on this one. The list I’m seeing from @ChasingCoral isn’t really a bug fix list. It’s mostly a list of enhancements. Ford loves to brainstorm enhancements - that’s how we get to half baked stuff like Charge Assist. Instead of fixes to basic software problems that have existed for over two years.

Sorry guys, but I guess I’m just never gonna be in the cool kids club because I’m not gonna pump sunshine for a seat at the table. It is beyond ridiculous that Ford refuses to recognize the bugs, let alone fix them.

That’s the thing, I think they are very well aware of the bugs and they are trying to fix them.

But it’s a hot mess because of how this Frankenstein car was put together.

It’s not for lack of effort though, so I do want to give them some credit for that.

They could very easily just stop the updates and feature enhancements and save those for future model years. But I’m glad that’s not how they are doing things.

 

[Mach1E]

I’m… not sure that they are. Because the bugs I (and many others) have identified can’t possibly take over two years to fix. I get priorities, but these should be relatively small fixes. They could have found a way to fit them over two years if they really cared.

Maybe maybe not.

Perfect example- headlight switch.

Known issue, been an issue. And it’s across multiple vehicle lines.

But if the rumor I heard is true, it’s not just a simple fix.

Seems that each “fix” is a big issue because of how the programming is different for every part in the car and they don’t like to talk to each other.

 

[Jimrpa]

Personally, I see those as softball complaints. I know that you guys want to keep your relationship warm and fuzzy with Ford because it benefits you. I, on the other hand, would have brought up the HVBJB, 5 Seconds for the GT, charge curves, bugs galore, horrible UI and the list goes on.

I'm on a tech support advisory board for Oracle. Oracle invites random customers to come in and complain. It's not a warm and fuzzy thing. They are customers, not influencers. There's no "insider information" to be obtained, there's no bragging rights to be had. We all sit down and the attendees complain about anything and everything. They don't hold back. Anyone who has used Oracle tech support would cringe to call them 5 years ago. Things have improved because the feedback has been brutal.

Ford inviting people with an agenda in hopes that they will be kind to them publicly is not working. They need to invite random owners who will be honest and open.

I know people think I'm an ass hole for always criticizing Ford, but it's because I want them to hear me and I want their products to improve. I sit at the receiving end of this criticism in board meetings all the time and I don't know how we would improve if it wasn't like that. We can't change unless we know what's wrong. I don't say the things I say because I hate Ford, rather it's because I want better from them and I like the MachE.

Anyway, thanks for attending. Your dealership complaints are the best on the list and there's not a lot Ford can even do about those. Hopefully future events will bring more criticism.

I agree with all your points, but I’m willing to cut Ford some slack here. From what I saw of @ChasingCoral s post, this seemed to be the first type of this event Ford has hosted and they’re still finding their way. I’m sure that Ford wanted to get as much value for their investment as possible, hence the bias towards influencers and the apparent “marketing vibe”. Our cars are improving, perhaps not as fast as we’d like, but improving.
Anyway, I hope people like you continue to push hard, as no organization survives without continual pressure to improve. I also hope that other folks continue to build their relationships at Ford resulting from events like this.

 

[Mirak]

Maybe maybe not.

Perfect example- headlight switch.

Known issue, been an issue. And it’s across multiple vehicle lines.

But if the rumor I heard is true, it’s not just a simple fix.

Seems that each “fix” is a big issue because of how the programming is different for every part in the car and they don’t like to talk to each other.

The headlight switch is hardware-related. How is resetting the toggle on the motion sensors with every key cycle, or remote starting the car into guest profile, or the radio activating to blare static when a Bluetooth connection drops, or burying the trunk button in settings, or the ridonculous top ribbon icons, hardware related?

 

[Mach1E]

The headlight switch is hardware-related. How is resetting the toggle on the motion sensors with every key cycle, or remote starting the car into guest profile, or the radio activating to blare static when a Bluetooth connection drops, or burying the trunk button in settings, or the ridonculous top ribbon icons, hardware related?

From what I was told, the headlight is actually software related as well.

Again, things are getting better, just not as fast as we would like (probably because the bug list is huge).

But we have gotten 33 OTA updates released in the last 12 months. That’s pretty significant.

 

[Mirak]

From what I was told, the headlight is actually software related as well.

Again, things are getting better, just not as fast as we would like (probably because the bug list is huge).

But we have gotten 33 OTA updates released in the last 12 months. That’s pretty significant.

It’s not just the delay, although that’s certainly a big part of it. It’s also the lack of communication. And when Ford does communicate it sometimes feels like outright gaslighting.

Take, for example, what Ford has deigned to tell us about the motion sensors. Behold!

SSM 51957 2021-2022 Mustang Mach-E - Alarm Activation With Motion Sensor Function Disabled

Some 2021-2022 Mustang Mach-E vehicles may experience an alarm activation even after the motion sensor function has been disabled through the pop-up menu at ignition off. If the customer wants to turn off the motion sensors for a key cycle, they can go to the center display screen: Vehicle > Settings > Alarm System > Motion Sensors off. The motion sensors will be re-enabled on the next key cycle. This condition does not affect vehicle durability and no additional diagnosis or service is required for this condition at this time. Inform customers that they can continue to drive the vehicle and engineering is currently working on a solution for this condition that is expected in November 2023. Monitor OASIS for additional information.

----End SSM----

First, it is garbage to even suggest as a workaround going five taps deep into the menu to turn off the sensors, for one key cycle.

Second, what is Ford even working on?! Are they just trying to get the pop up to work, or are they trying to get the setting to work? Ford doesn’t say. My money, sadly, is that they are focusing on the popup. The popup, even if it worked, is the half-assed workaround. I shouldn’t have to tap a popup every time I turn off my car just to keep my alarms from going off.

Here is what Ford could have said, but didn’t:

SSM 51957 2021-2022 Mustang Mach-E - Alarm Activation With Motion Sensor Function Disabled

Some 2021-2022 Mustang Mach-E vehicles may experience an alarm activation even after the motion sensor function has been disabled through the pop-up menu at ignition off or in Vehicle > Settings > Alarm System > Motion Sensors off. The popup doesn’t work, and the setting erroneously resets at every key cycle.

No additional diagnosis or service is required for this condition at this time. Inform customers that they can continue to drive the vehicle and engineering is currently working on a solution for both these problems that is expected in November 2023. Monitor OASIS for additional information.

----End SSM----

I spoke to a Ford engineer about this over a year ago. He was surprised, not by the issue, but that this as a problem for me. He said, I’m not even kidding you… “well the sensors only arm when the car locks. Why not turn off the walk-away locks?” This is the mentality we’re dealing with.

 

[Mach1E]

It’s not just the delay, although that’s certainly a big part of it. It’s also the lack of communication. And when Ford does communicate it sometimes feels like outright gaslighting.

Take, for example, what Ford has deigned to tell us about the motion sensors. Behold!



First, it is garbage to even suggest as a workaround going five taps deep into the menu to turn off the sensors, for one key cycle.

Second, what is Ford even working on?! Are they just trying to get the pop up to work, or are they trying to get the setting to work? Ford doesn’t say. My money, sadly, is that they are focusing on the popup. The popup, even if it worked, is the half-assed workaround. I shouldn’t have to tap a popup every time I turn off my car just to keep my alarms from going off.

Here is what Ford could have said, but didn’t:




I spoke to a Ford engineer about this over a year ago. He was surprised, not by the issue, but that this as a problem for me. He said, I’m not even kidding you… “well the sensors only arm when the car locks. Why not turn off the walk-away locks?” This is the mentality we’re dealing with.

For sure add it to the list.

My only point is that the list is getting shorter and they do seem to be listening, acknowledging, and making adjustments.

But the alarm sensors (minor annoyance, doesn’t break anything in the car) is likely a low priority fix. And for now they give you the “workaround.”

Unfortunately, the list of minor annoyances is long. Headlight switch is another example. Radio presets, guest profile, having to reset sync occasionally, having to hit the unlock button multiple times etc.

None of them will leave you stranded, just mildly annoyed.

But I do believe that these things will be worked on and fixed eventually. And the list of things that have gotten better is quite long.

The hard part with communication is that SOME transparency is actually worse than NONE.

Example- the order tracking system. The more info people know, the more anxiety it creates when there are delays.

 

[ChasingCoral]

So, you’ve made finding out about your experiences into a scavenger hunt? Will you give us hints where to look? ???

Pretty much. First clues: look in the Rally discussions and watch @Mach-E VLOG’s videos from the Detroit Auto Show.

 

[DevSecOps]

But the alarm sensors (minor annoyance, doesn’t break anything in the car) is likely a low priority fix. And for now they give you the “workaround.”

The SSM posted by @Mach-Lee was not for public consumption. It's not by any means confidential either. But Ford didn't give that to us as, they gave it to their dealer network so that they don't get billed for it anymore. So they aren't giving us anything.

None of them will leave you stranded, just mildly annoyed.

HVBJB failures are still a huge problem. I know you don't travel much in the MME (you said you never DCFC) and you don't have mountain passes in FL. Both times I had failure it was on a mountain pass 100+ miles from home. I'm still helping people with failures. They still have major issues and minor issues with this car. Let's not forget they are under investigation again by the NHTSA for the same issue.

Pretty much. First clues: look in the Rally discussions and watch @Mach-E VLOG’s videos from the Detroit Auto Show.

I'm gonna tell you how I see what you said, others may think different. Basically, I read that as "We went to get information for the public and now you have to pay us with views in order to get it". Doesn't come across well in my humble opinion.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I'm gonna tell you how I see what you said, others may think different. Basically, I read that as "We went to get information for the public and now you have to pay us with views in order to get it". Doesn't come across well in my humble opinion.

I said nothing about payment. Everything we provide is free. You neither elected me nor papa me to go. Take it or leave it.

I’m putting you on ignore now.

 

[SWO]

Here I come with Rivian ... but seriously look at Rivian. They actually hold town hall style events that owners can attend. Lead product developers are at them who you can talk to. They ask questions and actually respond to people on Reddit. They put out release notes that are to die for. They even thank community members and YouTubers in their release notes! Have a problem, they come to your house to fix it.

The fact that Ford just announced Charge Assist and this post by @Mirak, detailing all the bugs we still have, has more likes than a new feature announced should speak volumes.

I know Ford "tries". I have been part of focus groups. I have family that works there. I know they are on the forums, but they just don't seem to actually get anything done. That's my opinion and I respect that your opinion is different.

I'm in general agreement with your comments against Ford inviting cheerleaders to a focus group, but Rivian has a carefully managed image. Painting Kyle with his 100k subscribers as a regular user providing feedback is pretty hilarious.

No reviewers got trucks at launch unless they stuck to the script. Their first "review" was a commercial disguised as a review: https://www.motortrend.com/features...ve-review-trans-america-trail-off-road-ver-2/. TFL called them out.

Kyle was one of the folks complaining too. Then *surprise* he somehow got a truck in less than a week during the height of the pandemic and has been singing its praises on Youtube while quietly talking about the problems he's had on the InsideEVs podcast.

 

[DevSecOps]

I'm in general agreement with your comments against Ford inviting cheerleaders to a focus group, but Rivian has a carefully managed image. Painting Kyle with his 100k subscribers as a regular user providing feedback is pretty hilarious.

No reviewers got trucks at launch unless they stuck to the script. Their first "review" was a commercial disguised as a review: https://www.motortrend.com/features...ve-review-trans-america-trail-off-road-ver-2/. TFL called them out.

Kyle was one of the folks complaining too. Then *surprise* he somehow got a truck in less than a week during the height of the pandemic and has been singing its praises on Youtube while quietly talking about the problems he's had on the InsideEVs podcast.

I agree that all brands attempt to manage their image. When the manufacturers listen to their users and influencers and act on those I have no issue with that. But it has to be both. Having influencers or YouTubers show off their product is fine. What I take issue with is the way it's done. Most all companies will announce something publicly and then give it to people to try. This is true with new phones etc. The public however gets to see it first. In this case it goes to the "influencers" and we have to go on a scavenger hunt and sift through YT videos to find it? That's wack.

My comment has nothing to do with reviews or post public announcement features/products. That's normal marketing. Rivian gives the public opportunity to complain and responds in public events and Reddit. Ford invites people who have an agenda to "complain". I think we agree completely but they are separate issues and somehow being combined as one in the same.

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