My Trip to Detroit Auto Show and Meetings with Ford

[The Electric Duo]

This isn't a "tesla" influencer and asked for verbatim what they were told.

It's not?

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[Mirak]

Guys… eight pages of this. I really don’t care about the age of the MME market or the invitees to promotional events.

What I want to know is whether any of the attendees delivered a frank assessment - respectful but direct - of the MME’s software deficiencies.

I love my MME, but my frustration is that I feel like I’ve beta tested every inch of this car after buying a FE, I have offered a mountain of - I think - valuable and useful feedback, and I’ve largely been met with crickets.

I know Ford probably get annoyed by complainers. I’m a complainer. But my complaints are legit, and they’d cease if Ford would just acknowledge that fixes are coming.

So no offense to the attendees. I could be wrong. This could be an u fair characterization. But I see cheerleaders. And Ford doesn’t need to be hosting self-congratulatory cheer sessions. It needs panels that put the most knowledgeable customers in rooms with the actual software engineers so we can knock this crap out.

So my question to those who attended… looks like a fun time but did you talk to anybody at this event about current software deficiencies? Was that opportunity made available?

 

[leehinde]

Ultimately, Ford, GM and others need to create some new models without resurrecting existing names and the baggage that comes along.

I don't know. I'm surprised how many folks here are previous Mustang/Ford fans. It seemed to help get the word out better than if they'd called it the Ford Luxurio.

 

[Mach1E]

I don't know. I'm surprised how many folks here are previous Mustang/Ford fans. It seemed to help get the word out better than if they'd called it the Ford Luxurio.

Nostalgia.

We freakin yearn for it. Hollywood has that figured out very well.

 

[ChasingCoral]

So no offense to the attendees. I could be wrong. This could be an u fair characterization. But I see cheerleaders. And Ford doesn’t need to be hosting self-congratulatory cheer sessions. It needs panels that put the most knowledgeable customers in rooms with the actual software engineers so we can knock this crap out.

So my question to those who attended… looks like a fun time but did you talk to anybody at this event about current software deficiencies? Was that opportunity made available?

Yes. Note that I said: "meetings with Model E engineers and executives". In two separate sessions with multiple engineers and execs we had a chance to talk to them about the good or bad. They asked probing questions. They stopped mid-meal to make notes on their phones. The head of the Early Access Program joined us on multiple days and asked a lot of questions. They were listening and we weren't shy about raising the warts we had found.

 

[DevSecOps]

Yes. Note that I said: "meetings with Model E engineers and executives". In two separate sessions with multiple engineers and execs we had a chance to talk to them about the good or bad. They asked probing questions. They stopped mid-meal to make notes on their phones. The head of the Early Access Program joined us on multiple days and asked a lot of questions. They were listening and we weren't shy about raising the warts we had found.

What are some of the things complained about?

 

[ChasingCoral]

What are some of the things complained about?

Below are some of my concerns I brought to the meeting. I raised most of them. Everyone had issues to raise. However, we were asked to not share the discussions as some of what was said was not for public release yet and the idea was to have an open discussion. Recording the meeting, taking notes for distribution in places like this, etc. would have killed the openness and further restricted what could be said. We basically were under an understanding of an NDA.

That said, here's my abbreviated list of notes. I brought most of them up at various meetings with different folks. I had many other questions I raised as well. I also heard answers to many other concerns I had as well as many raised by others in the group.

Lightning

• Frunk beeper on/off
• Pro Power operate like zone Lightning & not require truck be turned on

All Ford BEVs

• More frequent Power Ups
• Better release notes (link ok)
• Charging: continuous, real-time charge rate in car and on Ford Pass
• Geek Mode
• More details on charging in car and on Ford Pass
• More car details in car when driving
• Short summons

Ford Process

• Poor communication with customers from reservation/order to sale
• Lack of trust in dealers
• Dealer ADMs

If you read our comments in various threads you'll hear what we are able to share.

 

[DevSecOps]

Below are some of my concerns I brought to the meeting.

Personally, I see those as softball complaints. I know that you guys want to keep your relationship warm and fuzzy with Ford because it benefits you. I, on the other hand, would have brought up the HVBJB, 5 Seconds for the GT, charge curves, bugs galore, horrible UI and the list goes on.

I'm on a tech support advisory board for Oracle. Oracle invites random customers to come in and complain. It's not a warm and fuzzy thing. They are customers, not influencers. There's no "insider information" to be obtained, there's no bragging rights to be had. We all sit down and the attendees complain about anything and everything. They don't hold back. Anyone who has used Oracle tech support would cringe to call them 5 years ago. Things have improved because the feedback has been brutal.

Ford inviting people with an agenda in hopes that they will be kind to them publicly is not working. They need to invite random owners who will be honest and open.

I know people think I'm an ass hole for always criticizing Ford, but it's because I want them to hear me and I want their products to improve. I sit at the receiving end of this criticism in board meetings all the time and I don't know how we would improve if it wasn't like that. We can't change unless we know what's wrong. I don't say the things I say because I hate Ford, rather it's because I want better from them and I like the MachE.

Anyway, thanks for attending. Your dealership complaints are the best on the list and there's not a lot Ford can even do about those. Hopefully future events will bring more criticism.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Personally, I see those as softball complaints. I know that you guys want to keep your relationship warm and fuzzy with Ford because it benefits you. I, on the other hand, would have brought up the HVBJB, 5 Seconds for the GT, charge curves, bugs galore, horrible UI and the list goes on.

Those weren't on my list at that point because we had already discussed these with folks earlier in the trip. I've posted on the 5 seconds for the GT elsewhere.

As I said, no notes and I'm not going to answer your list of what about questions. I'll simply tell you that our discussions weren't softball at all. Whether you choose to believe me or not is your choice. I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you.

 

[DevSecOps]

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you.

Where's this pissing match? I just wanted to know what issues were brought up.

If you guys are going to be representative of the community and the liaisons for Ford, I think we should all have some input.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Where's this pissing match? I just wanted to know what issues were brought up.

If you guys are going to be representative of the community and the liaisons for Ford, I think we should all have some input.

No comment.

 

[Mach1E]

Personally, I see those as softball complaints. I know that you guys want to keep your relationship warm and fuzzy with Ford because it benefits you. I, on the other hand, would have brought up the HVBJB, 5 Seconds for the GT, charge curves, bugs galore, horrible UI and the list goes on.

I'm on a tech support advisory board for Oracle. Oracle invites random customers to come in and complain. It's not a warm and fuzzy thing. They are customers, not influencers. There's no "insider information" to be obtained, there's no bragging rights to be had. We all sit down and the attendees complain about anything and everything. They don't hold back. Anyone who has used Oracle tech support would cringe to call them 5 years ago. Things have improved because the feedback has been brutal.

Ford inviting people with an agenda in hopes that they will be kind to them publicly is not working. They need to invite random owners who will be honest and open.

I know people think I'm an ass hole for always criticizing Ford, but it's because I want them to hear me and I want their products to improve. I sit at the receiving end of this criticism in board meetings all the time and I don't know how we would improve if it wasn't like that. We can't change unless we know what's wrong. I don't say the things I say because I hate Ford, rather it's because I want better from them and I like the MachE.

Anyway, thanks for attending. Your dealership complaints are the best on the list and there's not a lot Ford can even do about those. Hopefully future events will bring more criticism.

One of our general partners visiting our annual meeting had a great line when talking to us about our “concerns;”

Feedback is a gift.

It’s one thing to just complain. It’s more important to suggest solutions. And when companies take feedback and make changes, that’s when the good stuff happens.

From what I can see, Ford is pretty serious about getting feedback and making improvements…….. even though it’s probably slower than us customers would prefer. But change definitely happens.

 

[DevSecOps]

It’s one thing to just complain. It’s more important to suggest solutions. And when companies take feedback and make changes, that’s when the good stuff happens.

It's not always possible for clients to "suggest solutions" especially when they don't know what the problem actually is, they just know the anguish. Otherwise I agree with that. In the case of Ford, I don't think any of us knew the complexity in updating modules made by 10000 different vendors until Farley made that apparent. So, we complain but don't realize that Ford can't just fix it, they have to send it out to the mfg of the affected module.

I know you think a lot has been fixed for you, but respectfully, I disagree. Many, many people around here that have had multiple failures absolutely refuse to drive long distances in the MME. That's just sad, and I'm included in that group. Many of us have also had way more bugs than when we first purchased the vehicle. Honestly, I wish I would have never received a single OTA. None of them have done anything that I consider to be helpful. Even the charge curve is a bust because it's only > 80% SOC, which I don't do. Maybe unlocking the little bit of battery was good.

Either way, we can agree to disagree on those points, but I really wish they would focus on fixing the things that not only I, but many many people on this forum complain about. You are here a lot and you know it's not nit-picking, there's a ton of bugs that have been introduced.

 

[Mach1E]

It's not always possible for clients to "suggest solutions" especially when they don't know what the problem actually is, they just know the anguish. Otherwise I agree with that. In the case of Ford, I don't think any of us knew the complexity in updating modules made by 10000 different vendors until Farley made that apparent. So, we complain but don't realize that Ford can't just fix it, they have to send it out to the mfg of the affected module.

I know you think a lot has been fixed for you, but respectfully, I disagree. Many, many people around here that have had multiple failures absolutely refuse to drive long distances in the MME. That's just sad, and I'm included in that group. Many of us have also had way more bugs than when we first purchased the vehicle. Honestly, I wish I would have never received a single OTA. None of them have done anything that I consider to be helpful. Even the charge curve is a bust because it's only > 80% SOC, which I don't do. Maybe unlocking the little bit of battery was good.

Either way, we can agree to disagree on those points, but I really wish they would focus on fixing the things that not only I, but many many people on this forum complain about. You are here a lot and you know it's not nit-picking, there's a ton of bugs that have been introduced.

No doubt there is a laundry list of stuff to fix still.

I’m just giving Ford credit for actually listening and trying to make improvements.

This event is one small example.

EA is another.

They also do focus groups.

They also monitor this forum very closely.

All the complaints? They seem fully aware and seem to be working on most of them.

Never before have I owned a car where the manufacturer is paying this much attention, making this many changes, etc.

But yeah, I still for sure have a list of complaints/improvements. They are far from finished.

 

[DevSecOps]

Never before have I owned a car where the manufacturer is paying this much attention, making this many changes, etc.

Here I come with Rivian ... but seriously look at Rivian. They actually hold town hall style events that owners can attend. Lead product developers are at them who you can talk to. They ask questions and actually respond to people on Reddit. They put out release notes that are to die for. They even thank community members and YouTubers in their release notes! Have a problem, they come to your house to fix it.

The fact that Ford just announced Charge Assist and this post by @Mirak, detailing all the bugs we still have, has more likes than a new feature announced should speak volumes.

I know Ford "tries". I have been part of focus groups. I have family that works there. I know they are on the forums, but they just don't seem to actually get anything done. That's my opinion and I respect that your opinion is different.

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