Locked Out, 12v battery isn't dead.

[sparkymartin]

No word from the service manager today, but my salesman told me that they did manage to get my car into the service bay, so another good sign. The app is also now reporting the correct status of my vehicle (It says vehicle parked and the location is the location of the dealership). All good signs. Maybe I should try unlocking it or locking it, or turning on climate control with my phone while it is in service...lol.

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[sparkymartin]

I talked to the service manager. He said they replaced the 12 volt battery and things seem to be in better working order. They are now just monitoring the vehicle for any signs of phantom battery drain. If they don't see any today and overnight, I may just get my car back tomorrow morning. I am a root cause kind of guy, since I do software quality assurance for a living. If I were to do a 5 Why's analysis on this problem, I would start with:

• Q1: Why did my car lock me out and report an incorrect status in the App
• A1:Because there was a problem with the 12 Volt battery
  • Q2: Why was there a problem with the 12 Volt Battery?
  • A2: Possible Answers:
    • Maybe just a single/rare instance of a new 12 Volt battery that is defective (a one off defect and I am the lucky lottery winner)?
    • Maybe I left something on that required supply from the 12 Volt battery and it drained (doubtful because I made sure the vehicle was off, and it was in broad daylight)?
    • Maybe a phantom drain on the 12 Volt battery?
    • Maybe a manufacturing defect on the 12 Volt battery?
    • Maybe a bad connection to/on the 12 Volt battery?
    • Maybe the 12 Volt battery is not being properly charged by the main battery?

Whatever the actual answer, there could be a few more Why's to answer to get to true root cause. While I want my car back sooner rather than later, it would be nice if the true root cause was identified.

I did ask how they were able to get into the car to even assess anything in the first place, and I have not been given an answer to that yet. Maybe they don't want me to know how they "broke" into my car.

 

[garyd9]

I talked to the service manager. He said they replaced the 12 volt battery and things seem to be in better working order. They are now just monitoring the vehicle for any signs of phantom battery drain. If they don't see any today and overnight, I may just get my car back tomorrow morning. I am a root cause kind of guy, since I do software quality assurance for a living. If I were to do a 5 Why's analysis on this problem, I would start with:

• Q1: Why did my car lock me out and report an incorrect status in the App
• A1:Because there was a problem with the 12 Volt battery
  • Q2: Why was there a problem with the 12 Volt Battery?
  • A2: Possible Answers:
    • Maybe just a single/rare instance of a new 12 Volt battery that is defective (a one off defect and I am the lucky lottery winner)?
    • Maybe a phantom drain on the 12 Volt battery?
    • Maybe a manufacturing defect on the 12 Volt battery?
    • Maybe a bad connection to/on the 12 Volt battery?
    • Maybe the 12 Volt battery is not being properly charged by the main battery?

Whatever the actual answer, there could be a few more Why's to answer to get to true root cause. While I want my car back sooner rather than later, it would be nice if the true root cause was identified.

I did ask how they were able to get into the car to even assess anything in the first place, and I have not been given an answer to that yet.

More possible "A2" answers:

Maybe it installed an OTA module update and drained the battery during that process. (Installing some modules takes a considerable toll on the 12v battery. While the car is supposed to take precautions to prevent any issue, those precautions might not be enough.)

Maybe it installed an OTA module update and something resulting from that update drained the battery. (And perhaps resetting the module, as the dealership did when swapping batteries, would clear the error condition that drained the battery.)

 

[Mach-Lee]

I talked to the service manager. He said they replaced the 12 volt battery and things seem to be in better working order. They are now just monitoring the vehicle for any signs of phantom battery drain. If they don't see any today and overnight, I may just get my car back tomorrow morning. I am a root cause kind of guy, since I do software quality assurance for a living. If I were to do a 5 Why's analysis on this problem, I would start with:

• Q1: Why did my car lock me out and report an incorrect status in the App
• A1:Because there was a problem with the 12 Volt battery
  • Q2: Why was there a problem with the 12 Volt Battery?
  • A2: Possible Answers:
    • Maybe just a single/rare instance of a new 12 Volt battery that is defective (a one off defect and I am the lucky lottery winner)?
    • Maybe a phantom drain on the 12 Volt battery?
    • Maybe a manufacturing defect on the 12 Volt battery?
    • Maybe a bad connection to/on the 12 Volt battery?
    • Maybe the 12 Volt battery is not being properly charged by the main battery?

Whatever the actual answer, there could be a few more Why's to answer to get to true root cause. While I want my car back sooner rather than later, it would be nice if the true root cause was identified.

I did ask how they were able to get into the car to even assess anything in the first place, and I have not been given an answer to that yet.

The root cause on 2023s may have nothing to do with the 12V battery. It may have been just fine before the glitch. The process of going completely dead after the glitch starts can damage the 12V battery and cause it to need replacement, but that was an effect rather than a cause.

 

[Homestead]

This update last week 24-PU0121–FTDI-FX. Battery Optimization took my battery from high 70's down to 42%.
I level one charged for a couple hours after and it recovered. How low does the 12V have to get before you can't enter the vehicle?
I was thinking it would be nice if there was a 12V connector in the charge port door area so you could recharge the 12V battery without opening the hood.

 

[Mach-Lee]

This update last week 24-PU0121–FTDI-FX. Battery Optimization took my battery from high 70's down to 42%.
I level one charged for a couple hours after and it recovered. How low does the 12V have to get before you can't enter the vehicle?
I was thinking it would be nice if there was a 12V connector in the charge port door area so you could recharge the 12V battery without opening the hood.

Entry should work down to single digits. These modules are still supposed work with only 9-10V supply.

FYI charging the 12V battery probably will not help with the 2023 locked out glitch. The lights and panic horn are still operating normally, so the 12V battery is not dead when they experience the glitch.

 

[DeusEx]

@Mach-Lee, I mentioned this in the FDRS thread, but Mike G saw that there was a BCM update available in FDRS a few days ago. Do you think there is a chance that the BCM is involved with the lockouts on the '23 models and this update was to address these issues?

 

[sparkymartin]

How low does the 12V have to get before you can't enter the vehicle?

That is an excellent question that I think needs answering. I wish I knew the answer. Frankly, I feel it is a flaw that the 12V can ever get too low to impede vehicle entry. Why can't it revert to the main battery if the 12V is too low? I am no electrical engineer, but my car had plenty of range (235 miles), which means the main battery was around 78%. There is plenty of juice there to use if the 12V is dead. You should at least be able to enter the vehicle and open the frunk to replace the 12V battery in that case.

 

[sparkymartin]

Entry should work down to single digits. These modules are still supposed work with only 9-10V supply.

FYI charging the 12V battery probably will not help with the 2023 locked out glitch. The lights and panic horn are still operating normally, so the 12V battery is not dead when they experience the glitch.

In my case, the lights and horn were working fine (bright and loud) when key fob buttons were pushed...it just wouldn't actually unlock the doors. This is what made me believe that the 12V battery was fine. The tow truck driver attached a jump box power supply to the leads in the bumper and that didn't help to gain vehicle entry either.

 

[sparkymartin]

Good news (I hope). The dealership says my car is ready to be picked up. They didn't find anything else wrong besides the bad 12V battery. I sure hope it was a one time thing.

 

[dimes4slim]

No word from the service manager today, but my salesman told me that they did manage to get my car into the service bay, so another good sign. The app is also now reporting the correct status of my vehicle (It says vehicle parked and the location is the location of the dealership). All good signs. Maybe I should try unlocking it or locking it, or turning on climate control with my phone while it is in service...lol.

...or accidentally activating the horn like I did.

 

[Maverick12]

Exact same thing happened to me ?.
I'm locked out of my 2023 mach e premium Extended range. I was able to drive today morning. Came home and parked but now when I try to unlock, the light will flash and interior lights are on but doors won't open. Tried PAAK, keyfob and door code. Nothing works !!!

Jumpstart service tried to open the frunk but it won't open. I'll have it towed to the dealer.

 

[Maverick12]

Good news (I hope). The dealership says my car is ready to be picked up. They didn't find anything else wrong besides the bad 12V battery. I sure hope it was a one time thing.

Hi! Can you may be ask the service advisor/tech and find out how they got the doors unlocked? I have some important stuff in the car and wanted to prioritize this first.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Hi! Can you may be ask the service advisor/tech and find out how they got the doors unlocked? I have some important stuff in the car and wanted to prioritize this first.

Odds are very high they waited for the 12v battery to die then used the leads in the front bumper to open the frunk then replaced the 12v.

See @Mach-Lee’s excellent post:
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/completely-locked-out-😭.37460/post-826910

 

[sparkymartin]

Hi! Can you may be ask the service advisor/tech and find out how they got the doors unlocked? I have some important stuff in the car and wanted to prioritize this first.

The dealership did not tell me exactly how they got in...they just said that they kept trying throughout the day and finally got in later in the afternoon. My hunch is the same as @Kamuelaflyer that the 12V battery finally died enough to use the leads in the front bumper.

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