Communism meets Capitolism the Xiaomi SU7 - Look what $42K gets you.....C'mon USA!!!

[67 Stang Convertible]

Wow, I just watched this "Out of Spec Review" from Kyle and very rarely do I see him gush over a car so much. For me personally, and I understand that it may not be a hang-up for everyone, I would have a difficult time buying this car simply out of concern of supporting a communist regime like China. And, yes, I know between my cell phone, televisions, routers, calculators.....ect....I already indirectly support China. But that is indirectly-ish and this is directly.

That being said, for $42K equivalent in China (their top spec level) you get just about every bell and whistle you can imagine, minus the hands free. Kyle gushes over the driving dynamics and comfort and the tech is SOOOO far superior to what we have now. Maybe Tesla comes closest; but, watching this video, it looks much better than Tesla's screen. ***This is Xiaomi's 1st ever automobile they have built (They are equivalent to Apple Corp of China). Watch the video below just to see hopefully what our future holds.



(This video is Jim Farley saying how much he likes his Xiaomi SU7 and does not want to give it up. Min 22-23)

Why is China so far ahead of us??

1. Gov't subsidies
2. They have been at this for 2 decades
3. Manufacturing/R&D - They make most of the world's electronics.
4. Mature suppliers
5. Commitment to electrification of auto industry
6. **Cheap Ass Labor Rates in China (do they have Unions? I don't know. But I doubt it!)

(Here is another "Out of Spec Review" of a different Chinese Model 3 Competitor)

Hey #Ford, #Chevy and #Dodge, get your asses in gear and let's go!!! I don't want to be "second fiddle" to a different country, let alone the US's main Competitor!!! Let's bring back manufacturing and electronic R&D in this country. Silicone Valley, where are you? Are you too busy spending all the money you've made in the last 30 years, buying your McMansions over looking the coast of California?? You're getting "Lapped" literally and "figuratively"!! Hey, US Secondary Education Institutions, let's stop importing students from overseas, educating them and then letting them go back to their country to utilize this education (I'm looking at you Stanford).

I'm a capitalist at heart but support the Tariffs on Chinese automobiles. Simply because if not I think our auto manufacturers would go belly-up if there were no restrictions. If your old enough to remember the 1970's, we've been down this road before!!! And look what happened. The country we decimated with atomic bombs in Aug. of 1945, merely 25 years later starts to dominate the US auto industry (Toyota, Datsun-Nissan, Honda). Then in the 80's & 90's the South Koreans have come (Kia & Hyundai). I'm a US Muscle Car enthusiast and want the US to dominate the market again one day. To do that, we need more commitment from our current auto industry, our Universities/tech school and our software engineers!!!

I would love to hear your opinion as to why the US is so far behind China in the auto industry and specifically the electrification of it!!!

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[Shepherd]

I agree. Too easy to go off on a political rant, but the answer to your question starts here:
https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/. And it’s easier to direct resources to industries in a command economy dictatorship. Pick your poison.

Merely Xmas!

 

[hybrid2bev]

The US auto industry understands the threat from Chinese EVs all too well. Jim Farley has spoken many times about this. Though it’s not just the auto industry that needs to make a commitment to EVs. Having our next administration pull back on EVs is only going to put our auto industry further behind.

 

[CTZ]

I would love to hear your opinion as to why the US is so far behind China in the auto industry and specifically the electrification of it!!!

None of that matters because tariffs.

 

[TheSteelRider]

Personally, I blame the dealerships and dealership lobby significantly more than the auto industry as a whole for the vehicle market in America being so far behind. They've forced a model where add-ons and service are the priority. They loathe anything new, because that means they would have to actually work to sell vehicles. They loathe anything that requires less maintenance, because that is where the profits are.

Hindsight is 20/20 and from my understanding, most of the pundits seem to agree that the quality of the cars in the American market today is almost exclusively an effect of the Japanese entering into the market a few decades ago.

I'm skeptical of Chinese made vehicles because I think the average product from China is of low quality compared to products made elsewhere (Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc.).

That being said, I think we have evidence that American consumers and companies are not going to be able to single-handedly destroy the dealership model. Tesla has tried, and has had some success in most states, but still to this day battles to even be able to sell or deliver cars in certain places. It seems to me that Rivian is likely suffering at least a little because their vehicles are not sitting on lots. Recently we have the Scout / VW threats of lawsuits from dealerships. Even the progenitor of the American car, Ford, has tried to de-emphasize dealers only to have their hand slapped by the dealers.

Honestly at this point it is clear we need an outside disrupter to enter the market. We need this to happen now, so that 25 years in the future we can all look back and thank our lucky stars the Chinese entered our market and re-invented it just like the Japanese did in the past.

Like your Ford? Thank Toyota. Want to like your Rivian/Tesla/next-new-car-brand? Invite the Chinese in.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

China has an astronomical EV adoption rate due to a simple gov rule: to drive an ice, your license plate will cost you $15k / 110k RMB. My casual count on the highways in Shanghai this summer was around 60/40 ice to “alternative energy” (which is predominantly EVs).

That’ll shape the demand curve!

The cars are a mixed bag, but some are very nice looking.

I saw several Mach-Es, here’s one GT with select wheels at my hotel. Notice the green plate vs blue for ice.

 

[CameraCarl]

It is all very simple: Google AI search says that the average manufacturing job in China pays the equivalent of $14,000 a year. The average manufacturing job in the USA pays $41,222. Everything else is noise.

 

[Mach1E]

It is all very simple: Google AI search says that the average manufacturing job in China pays the equivalent of $14,000 a year. The average manufacturing job in the USA pays $41,222. Everything else is noise.

As much as Americans love to complain about America……. We would all rather live here.

Oh, and being able to complain openly about our country is a perk here as well. ?

For auto manufacturing jobs in the US, your number is way off though (assuming your number is all manufacturing). It’s over $86,000.

And the total labor costs per employee are around DOUBLE that.

Plus China purposefully devalues their currency to make their products cheaper.

So yeah, things cost more here.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Personally, I blame the dealerships and dealership lobby significantly more than the auto industry as a whole for the vehicle market in America being so far behind. They've forced a model where add-ons and service are the priority. They loathe anything new, because that means they would have to actually work to sell vehicles. They loathe anything that requires less maintenance, because that is where the profits are.

I concur. I blame almost everything wrong with the auto industry on the mandatory dealership system legacy makers are forced to keep.

Government directed investment in emerging technologies is not a bad thing. It’s how progress happens. Yes, there will be lots of duds, but you learn from those too. This area is one that the Chinese were smart to invest in.

The US auto industry understands the threat from Chinese EVs all too well. Jim Farley has spoken many times about this. Though it’s not just the auto industry that needs to make a commitment to EVs. Having our next administration pull back on EVs is only going to put our auto industry further behind.

X100.

 

[CameraCarl]

As much as Americans love to complain about America……. We would all rather live here.

Oh, and being able to complain openly about our country is a perk here as well. ?

For auto manufacturing jobs in the US, your number is way off though (assuming your number is all manufacturing). It’s over $86,000.

And the total labor costs per employee are around DOUBLE that.

Plus China purposefully devalues their currency to make their products cheaper.

So yeah, things cost more here.

So if a Chinese auto maker is paying their employees 1/3 the wages of a US or European maker, they can cram in a lot more content and sell at the same price. I guess it then is up to the consumer to decide if he wants the cheapest cars possible or support his neighbors in the US.

 

[Jimrpa]

Wow, I just watched this "Out of Spec Review" from Kyle and very rarely do I see him gush over a car so much. For me personally, and I understand that it may not be a hang-up for everyone, I would have a difficult time buying this car simply out of concern of supporting a communist regime like China. And, yes, I know between my cell phone, televisions, routers, calculators.....ect....I already indirectly support China. But that is indirectly-ish and this is directly.

That being said, for $42K equivalent in China (their top spec level) you get just about every bell and whistle you can imagine, minus the hands free. Kyle gushes over the driving dynamics and comfort and the tech is SOOOO far superior to what we have now. Maybe Tesla comes closest; but, watching this video, it looks much better than Tesla's screen. ***This is Xiaomi's 1st ever automobile they have built (They are equivalent to Apple Corp of China). Watch the video below just to see hopefully what our future holds.



(This video is Jim Farley saying how much he likes his Xiaomi SU7 and does not want to give it up. Min 22-23)

Why is China so far ahead of us??

1. Gov't subsidies
2. They have been at this for 2 decades
3. Manufacturing/R&D - They make most of the world's electronics.
4. Mature suppliers
5. Commitment to electrification of auto industry
6. **Cheap Ass Labor Rates in China (do they have Unions? I don't know. But I doubt it!)

(Here is another "Out of Spec Review" of a different Chinese Model 3 Competitor)

Hey #Ford, #Chevy and #Dodge, get your asses in gear and let's go!!! I don't want to be "second fiddle" to a different country, let alone the US's main Competitor!!! Let's bring back manufacturing and electronic R&D in this country. Silicone Valley, where are you? Are you too busy spending all the money you've made in the last 30 years, buying your McMansions over looking the coast of California?? You're getting "Lapped" literally and "figuratively"!! Hey, US Secondary Education Institutions, let's stop importing students from overseas, educating them and then letting them go back to their country to utilize this education (I'm looking at you Stanford).

I'm a capitalist at heart but support the Tariffs on Chinese automobiles. Simply because if not I think our auto manufacturers would go belly-up if there were no restrictions. If your old enough to remember the 1970's, we've been down this road before!!! And look what happened. The country we decimated with atomic bombs in Aug. of 1945, merely 25 years later starts to dominate the US auto industry (Toyota, Datsun-Nissan, Honda). Then in the 80's & 90's the South Koreans have come (Kia & Hyundai). I'm a US Muscle Car enthusiast and want the US to dominate the market again one day. To do that, we need more commitment from our current auto industry, our Universities/tech school and our software engineers!!!

I would love to hear your opinion as to why the US is so far behind China in the auto industry and specifically the electrification of it!!!

I don’t want to get political, but there’s a factual error in the title - china is absolutely NOT “communist” per the economic, societal, and government organizational definition of the term. China could more accurately be described as a one party dictatorship with those leading the party either directly or indirectly controlling all economic activity.

Please correct the title of this thread.

 

[Jimrpa]

China has an astronomical EV adoption rate due to a simple gov rule: to drive an ice, your license plate will cost you $15k / 110k RMB. My casual count on the highways in Shanghai this summer was around 60/40 ice to “alternative energy” (which is predominantly EVs).

That’ll shape the demand curve!

The cars are a mixed bag, but some are very nice looking.

I saw several Mach-Es, here’s one GT with select wheels at my hotel. Notice the green plate vs blue for ice.

Those vehicles are not Mustang Mach-Es as we know and love them. They closely resemble our cars in styling, but they have several different known (and unknown) features, some of which make the vehicle … undesirable.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I don’t want to get political, but there’s a factual error in the title - china is absolutely NOT “communist” per the economic, societal, and government organizational definition of the term. China could more accurately be described as a one party dictatorship with those leading the party either directly or indirectly controlling all economic activity.

Please correct the title of this thread.

This.

I spent a lot of time in China during my career. I watched it go from bicycles everywhere to “What’s a bicycle?”. My general thought on their economy is, “World’s largest capitalist economy.” Government and economics are two different things.

 

[Mach1E]

I concur. I blame almost everything wrong with the auto industry on the mandatory dealership system legacy makers are forced to keep.

To the point of the thread (cheap prices), I would argue that the dealership system actually keeps prices LOWER for the consumer.

A few points-
1.Actual profit per vehicle at the dealership is extremely low. They aren’t adding much to the price.
2. Dealerships create price competition. You can have 4 or more competing Ford dealers in a 5 mile radius.
3. Dealerships hold inventory. That means you can drive away today, and get deals on excess inventory

There are plenty of things wrong with car dealerships, but I don’t think price is one of them.

If you want to compare a similar industry that has manufacturer direct sales as well as dealership models- look at BOATS.

And the manufacturer direct boats? Usually way more expensive and a long wait to get one plus service is an issue.

Direct is only better if the manufacturer has excellent customer service.

If my local Ford dealer sucks, I have 4 others to choose from.

 

[Jeff-NoVA]

Honestly at this point it is clear we need an outside disrupter to enter the market. We need this to happen now, so that 25 years in the future we can all look back and thank our lucky stars the Chinese entered our market and re-invented it just like the Japanese did in the past.

I agree that dealers are a major choke point for EVs, but they are not the reason the Chinese can develop and sell better and cheaper EVs than Ford. Nonetheless, dealerships don't want to sell EVs because they can't milk owners for service and maintenance for years after the sale.

However, the dealers spend a ton of money lobbying in every state (dealership laws are state laws) and so it's not enough to be a disruptor. Companies like Tesla need to spend to change the laws that perpetuate the dealer model. In American politics, only money matters. Unfortunately, Elon has decided to spend his money on, uh, other political endeavors.

Anyhow, if you want American automakers to be more competitive, start by looking at the fact that healthcare adds $1,500 to the cost (not the price) of every single American vehicle.

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