NHTSA opens probe into BlueCruise

[Teslaeata]

I think people should understand the limitations:

Isn’t BlueCruise a driver assistance system, hands-off eyes-on and all that?

If so, where’s the driver in these incidents?

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[tobiasjef]

A camera requires a computer to be hooked to it. Eyes require a brain to be hooked to it. Currently no computer can compete with the human brain computer. So we need AI/computing to be processing at or beyond a human.

Tesla drives unsafely in those conditions. When weather is bad my mach-e taps out, BC shuts off and I take over. Just because Tesla pretends to drive well in those conditions does not mean that it does.

no because a computer does things a human does not.

Computers are already more powerful than the human brain. They are just not efficient at doing basic functions so they end up doing more than necessary to achieve the same result.

When the car knows a road is 4 lanes wide, it knows exactly the width of each lane and where they are positioned.

When a car is trained for low visibility scenarios it is given feedback with the ground truth. Something a human never receives.

In those scenarios tesla actually drives quite well.

 

[MacherAWD]

no because a computer does things a human does not.

Computers are already more powerful than the human brain. They are just not efficient at doing basic functions so they end up doing more than necessary to achieve the same result.

When the car knows a road is 4 lanes wide, it knows exactly the width of each lane and where they are positioned.

When a car is trained for low visibility scenarios it is given feedback with the ground truth. Something a human never receives.

In those scenarios tesla actually drives quite well.

Sorry, I am sure you love your Tesla but they arent driving around with ASI, or AGI, the great minds in AI are saying we are still years away from AGI (artificial general intelligence).

And I am going to check out here. You are a musician? Have you ever owned or really driven a Mach-e? I understand the tesla forum is boring but I am not here to debate fanboys.

 

[rreddy3]

Isn’t BlueCruise a driver assistance system, hands-off eyes-on and all that?

If so, where’s the driver in these incidents?

evidently asleep or “out to lunch”…

 

[tobiasjef]

Sorry, I am sure you love your Tesla but they arent driving around with ASI, or AGI, the great minds in AI are saying we are still years away from AGI (artificial general intelligence).

And I am going to check out here. You are a musician? Have you ever owned or really driven a Mach-e? I understand the tesla forum is boring but I am not here to debate fanboys.

I'm not talking about AGI. You don't need AGI to do things better than a human. Do you need AGI to have faster reaction time than a human?

Do you need AGI to have camera sensors which surpass the limitations of human vision?

Do you need AGI to detect all 50 cars and pedestrians around you, their distance, and predict their trajectory?

No.

Yes tesla is nowhere near robotaxi because the system has limitations but this has nothing to do with whether it is fundmentally unsafe to use radar in the way ford is using it.

And then there is also the question of mental effort when driving. Try driving like fsd 13.2 in terms of smoothness in braking and acceleration. It is exhausting to put that much effort.

 

[rreddy3]

Some of you may find the attached video interesting. If it has already been posted and discussed on the forum, mea maxima culpa for not finding that thread. I won’t comment on the video. It can speak for itself.

https://www.wsj.com/video/series/te...as-crash/68D26569-0251-4637-A035-A5131D8883B8

 

[tobiasjef]

Some of you may find the attached video interesting. If it has already been posted and discussed on the forum, mea maxima culpa for not finding that thread. I won’t comment on the video. It can speak for itself.

https://www.wsj.com/video/series/te...as-crash/68D26569-0251-4637-A035-A5131D8883B8

that video is extremely ignorant because it talks about tesla autopilot.

Tesla autopilot is a 7 or 8 year old software.

Tesla now has something called FSD which performs much better

it's also important to mention that tesla has had autopilot functionality since 2014 and unlike competitor systems it shuts off about 1/10 as often which makes people get too complacent with how it works.

 

[rreddy3]

Some of you may find the attached video interesting. If it has already been posted and discussed on the forum, mea maxima culpa for not finding that thread. I won’t comment on the video. It can speak for itself.

https://www.wsj.com/video/series/te...as-crash/68D26569-0251-4637-A035-A5131D8883B8

The link above may be behind a paywall. It is also available on YouTube… just do a search on YouTube for something like ‘WSJ tesla fsd crash report’…you’ll find it.

 

[MacherAWD]

I'm not talking about AGI. You don't need AGI to do things better than a human. Do you need AGI to have faster reaction time than a human?

Do you need AGI to have camera sensors which surpass the limitations of human vision?

Do you need AGI to detect all 50 cars and pedestrians around you, their distance, and predict their trajectory?

No.

Yes tesla is nowhere near robotaxi because the system has limitations but this has nothing to do with whether it is fundmentally unsafe to use radar in the way ford is using it.

And then there is also the question of mental effort when driving. Try driving like fsd 13.2 in terms of smoothness in braking and acceleration. It is exhausting to put that much effort.

So the lens in the camera is better than the lens in my eye. But the computer attached to the camera is not as good as the computer attached to my eye. Glad we agree.

Lets talk about your poor weather condition video above. This was a real scenario for me last month, Boston friday rush-hour traffic, with 6 inches of snow covering the highways and still snowing. The cars abandoned 4 lanes, and were driving in 3 makeshift lanes with more space between them. We also could not see road lines so we drove in the existing grooves from other cars. What is safer here? Me in my BlueCruise mach-e which wouldnt even engage, so I followed traffic and drove in the grooves. Or is the tesla safer driving in FSD trying to stay in the correct lane and ignoring those around it?

And sure FSD on nice roads and conditions is relaxing, similar to how BC is very relaxing in those conditions. My car knowing its limits and disengaging in poor visibility is also more relaxing then the car trying to drive in bad conditions.

 

[tobiasjef]

So the lens in the camera is better than the lens in my eye. But the computer attached to the camera is not as good as the computer attached to my eye. Glad we agree.

Lets talk about your poor weather condition video above. This was a real scenario for me last month, Boston friday rush-hour traffic, with 6 inches of snow covering the highways and still snowing. The cars abandoned 4 lanes, and were driving in 3 makeshift lanes with more space between them. We also could not see road lines so we drove in the existing grooves from other cars. What is safer here? Me in my BlueCruise mach-e which wouldnt even engage, so I followed traffic and drove in the grooves. Or is the tesla safer driving in FSD trying to stay in the correct lane and ignoring those around it?

And sure FSD on nice roads and conditions is relaxing, similar to how BC is very relaxing in those conditions. My car knowing its limits and disengaging in poor visibility is also more relaxing then the car trying to drive in bad conditions.

tesla doesn't stay in the correct lane always. It follows a lead car to get clues as to what to do.

I don't think you realize how good FSD is. While it is far from unsupervised, it's as if tesla is trying to cure every type of cancer at once. The car does many superhuman and human-like behaviors.

FSD is beyond basic driving and does things like pull over for emergency vehicles.

 

[rreddy3]

that video is extremely ignorant because it talks about tesla autopilot.

Tesla autopilot is a 7 or 8 year old software.

Tesla now has something called FSD which performs much better

it's also important to mention that tesla has had autopilot functionality since 2014 and unlike competitor systems it shuts off about 1/10 as often which makes people get too complacent with how it works.

“extremely ignorant “ video. That my tesla friend is a mighty serious allegation. If you watch the video through a neutral eye you might learn something, or not.

 

[tobiasjef]

“extremely ignorant “ video. That my tesla friend is a mighty serious allegation. If you watch the video through a neutral eye you might learn something, or not.

it's ignorant because it does not know the difference between autopilot and full self driving.

They use the terms interchangeably as if they are the same thing.

Tesla makes it confusing because they include autopilot for free and then you have to pay for FSD.

I've suspected they do not want to "upgrade" autopilot to match the capabilities of FSD in steering and braking because it would be too good. No one would buy FSD because the interventions with autopilot would be too low for anyone to care.

One of those crashes in the video was so old that it was back when tesla was using radar. GASP. The exact same reason that ford is currently being probed for bluecruise deaths. Because radar is fundamentally dangerous.

FSD has driven more than 2 billion miles and 2 people died in very old versions a while back. In the public releases, no one has died and the 2 deaths that happened were extreme scenarios with poor visibility that probably found no one at fault.


you can see the real look for yourself at tesladeaths.com

 

[MacherAWD]

tesla doesn't stay in the correct lane always. It follows a lead car to get clues as to what to do.

I don't think you realize how good FSD is. While it is far from unsupervised, it's as if tesla is trying to cure every type of cancer at once. The car does many superhuman and human-like behaviors.

FSD is beyond basic driving and does things like pull over for emergency vehicles.

Yes FSD is probably the most advanced system on the road. That said if every car was using FSD tomorrow what would happen? Or since we dont have governing bodies regulating, or Tesla even reporting their results, what if EVERY car brand released its half baked/over hyped solution tomorrow, that would be very dangerous.

No one is saying a tesla isnt advanced, what we are saying is the ego that is coming from its marketing, and the ego its users display is dangerous.

And apologies to the general thread, this is about Ford BC and not at all about Tesla. Done talking about them.

 

[tobiasjef]

D is probably the most advanced system on the road. That said if every car was using FSD tomorrow what would happen? Or since we dont have governing bodies regulating, or Tesla even reporting their results, what if EVERY car brand released its half

And a system which fundamentally does not see stopped vehicles (bluecruise) is not half baked?

The whole point of this is that bluecruise will likely disappear from cars. And for those that paid for bluecruise, what happens? Does ford refund some money. Does ford pay to retrofit another ADAS manufacturer's system which does not have this limitation?

 

[Snakebitten]

Bluecruise will dissappear from our Bluecruise equipped cars because the driver still has to stop the vehicle using the brake pedal, if someone parks on the interstate?

I don't know if I buy that.

If Bluecruise dissappears, it'll be because nobody is buying the subscription rate.

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