2021-2023 cold weather performance fix

[GarageWarrior2023]

The last two posts were priceless. Can someone actually meet with an independent engineer/auto mechanic shop such as Sandy's in Detroit and create a needed product?

Yes, I really want there to be some kind of official cold weather kit released.

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[dpnelson]

Yep, seems to be the ongoing issue with Ford that I'm finding. The engineers create something viable, and the higher ups trim it into something riddled with shortsighted issues. And then the Higher ups perpetuate the issue and create a long term customer retention problem.

I really think it's as simple as releasing an extreme weather kit for cold climates. something that's added by the dealership and is external. nothing inside the battery. An EV version of a block heater. That's all it has to be. Simple, straight forward, paid for option that gets added. No one would have an issue with that. I'd buy the kit tomorrow if they had it. even if the kit was $1000 installed.

Coming up with dealer-installable hose insulation would probably be straightforward, but external pack insulation would be tough to make work. It'd have to be rugged enough to be exposed, thin enough to not reduce ground clearance too much, and still have a decent insulation value.

It's too bad EPA range testing doesn't have some sort of cold weather measurement. Accountants would have a harder time cutting insulation if it had a measurable effect on ratings.

 

[GarageWarrior2023]

Coming up with dealer-installable hose insulation would probably be straightforward, but external pack insulation would be tough to make work. It'd have to be rugged enough to be exposed, thin enough to not reduce ground clearance too much, and still have a decent insulation value.

It's too bad EPA range testing doesn't have some sort of cold weather measurement. Accountants would have a harder time cutting insulation if it had a measurable effect on ratings.

I agree, I think one of the things missing with EV's is new cold weather regulations/requirements that push a consistent cold weather baseline. each EV seems to be a crap shoot for whether they have heat in winter in Canada.

Also agree, hose insulation kit would be no big deal.

But, I think an under battery insulation kit is easy too. there are 10 pre existing holes on the outside edges of the battery. 8 on the strike rails (actually 16, each round hole has a slotted hole beside it...could easily use the round hole to put a carriage bolt into the slotted hole beside it) and 2 at the nose of the battery. The pan could be bolted in place using these existing holes is the pan structure was designed correctly with tabs.

I also believe it would be easy to have an aluminum pan with some structural stamping and then a thin 1/4inch or 3/8th inch contoured or compressible insulation to make contact with the bottom of the battery.

The fact that there's viable mounting points already on the battery enclosure makes me think this would be a really easy kit to make and install.

 

[dpnelson]

I agree, I think one of the things missing with EV's is new cold weather regulations/requirements that push a consistent cold weather baseline. each EV seems to be a crap shoot for whether they have heat in winter in Canada.

Also agree, hose insulation kit would be no big deal.

But, I think an under battery insulation kit is easy too. there are 10 pre existing holes on the outside edges of the battery. 8 on the strike rails (actually 16, each round hole has a slotted hole beside it...could easily use the round hole to put a carriage bolt into the slotted hole beside it) and 2 at the nose of the battery. The pan could be bolted in place using these existing holes is the pan structure was designed correctly with tabs.

I also believe it would be easy to have an aluminum pan with some structural stamping and then a thin 1/4inch or 3/8th inch contoured or compressible insulation to make contact with the bottom of the battery.

The fact that there's viable mounting points already on the battery enclosure makes me think this would be a really easy kit to make and install.

I hope you're right. The primary thing holding me back from getting a Mach-E is the fact that I do at least one cold weather road trip every year to an area with really poor CCS fast charging infrastructure.

 

[Billyk24]

I hope you're right. The primary thing holding me back from getting a Mach-E is the fact that I do at least one cold weather road trip every year to an area with really poor CCS fast charging infrastructure.

Recheck to see if Tesla V3 stations exist along the route

 

[emichnov]

I have what I suspect is a dumb suggestion, but here goes...

Is this a simple matter of drilling a series of holes in the side of the battery pan and filling the pan with as many cans of Insulating Foam Sealant (Great Stuff or some commercial product that is even better) as can be fit in there? No dropping the battery, and pretty good insulation. Trick would be to know where to drill the holes to not drill into any of the batteries!!!

Fell free to throw grenades at this idea; I can take it!

 

[Billyk24]

Not an engineer, mechanic or auto expert here and asking if flammability issues with spray foam would make this a non-starter?

 

[Mach-Lee]

I have what I suspect is a dumb suggestion, but here goes...

Is this a simple matter of drilling a series of holes in the side of the battery pan and filling the pan with as many cans of Insulating Foam Sealant (Great Stuff or some commercial product that is even better) as can be fit in there? No dropping the battery, and pretty good insulation. Trick would be to know where to drill the holes to not drill into any of the batteries!!!

Fell free to throw grenades at this idea; I can take it!

Very very bad idea. It would be very easy to puncture a cold plate when the drill bit punches through. You’ll definitely void your battery warranty, and might cause a fire. Spray foam is very flammable and not designed to handle high temperatures. When it expands, it might exert pressure and damage certain areas of the battery. Worst case it shorts something out. The battery pack also won’t be perfectly sealed anymore, and it will not be serviceable. That sounds like something you’d only try on a 15-year-old EV if you don’t really care about the outcome.

Anything we do has to be completely external and cannot interfere with the serviceability of the pack in the future. It should be removable if necessary.

 

[emichnov]

Very very bad idea.

Thanks! I suspected there was a fatal flaw.

 

[DigitalN]

@Mach-Lee did you ever do any tests insulating the heater lines to see how that impacts cabin heat? I understand insulating the battery pack is a big benefit, but the reduced ground clearance by doing so concerns me. I'd like to start with just insulating hoses first and see if that is enough.

 

[Billyk24]

@Mach-Lee did you ever do any tests insulating the heater lines to see how that impacts cabin heat? I understand insulating the battery pack is a big benefit, but the reduced ground clearance by doing so concerns me. I'd like to start with just insulating hoses first and see if that is enough.

There was a guy on the Tesla forum back in 2019 that insulated the lines and battery pack and found a benefit. I think the link was previously posted. Otherwise O would need to do a repeat search

 

[DeusEx]

@markboris had a very great write up on this. See this post. https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/insulating-hvb-pack-bottom-heating-cooling-hoses.43549/

 

[Mach-Lee]

@Mach-Lee did you ever do any tests insulating the heater lines to see how that impacts cabin heat? I understand insulating the battery pack is a big benefit, but the reduced ground clearance by doing so concerns me. I'd like to start with just insulating hoses first and see if that is enough.

I did, but to be honest I did not see much of a difference at -15°F. The improvement in heat was less than 5°F. Most of the heat loss is though the surface of the battery (top and bottom).

 

[DigitalN]

OK thanks for the info, it gets seriously cold here so I was hoping to do anything that helps! Cheers.

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