EREV F-150 Lightning to replace EV model [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[SonicBlue]

700+ range is also not with doing your “truck stuff”. No one measures range with a vehicle doing “truck stuff”.

Ok. So what is the apples to apples comparison for truck stuff?

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[devmach-e]

An “EREV” is nothing more than a specific type of hybrid vehicle. Broadly speaking, hybrids can be series or parallel. A series hybrid has a small ICE that is not connected to the drivetrain and does not provide propulsion for the vehicle (note: there was a series hybrid Chevy that was found to have some type of connection to the drivetrain - I don’t remember the details). All the ICE does in a series hybrid is provides power to a generator which charges a small battery pack which, in turn, provides energy for an electric drive train. A parallel hybrid has an ICE that, in addition to being able to charge the battery of the electric drive train, is also connected to the drive train mechanically and provides propulsive power.
In theory, both series and parallel hybrids can be configured as “plug-in”. All this means is that the battery pack can also be charged by plugging into a Level 1/Level 2 charger (I’m unaware of any plug in hybrids that are capable of level 3 charging - given the diminutive size of the battery pack of a hybrid, coupled with the availability of the ICE generator, Level 3 charging would be overkill.
personally, I’m not a fan of any type of hybrid for a variety of technical reasons, but I get why others might want a hybrid.

Some hybrids are series/parallel. Toyota in particular. A number of Ford's hybrid offerings used a similar design to Toyota's which is why they cross licensed eachother's designs back in the mid to late 2000s.

The Chevy Volt was a plug-in series/parallel hybrid with the ability to uncouple the drive wheels from the engine through a set of clutches. Most of the time it ran the engine in generator-only mode.

The BMW i3 BEV was available as an EREV, but wasn't considered a series hybrid because the small gas engine was there only to do range extension to a limited level, and had a super small gas tank. The idea being that it was for emergency use only and drivers should be plugging in and using that as their main source of propulsion. At least that's what the regulators wanted.

If you already have a good hybrid design, adding a larger battery so it can be a PHEV doesn't compromise much, if at all. Toyota's hybrid design is pretty much bullet-proof after nearly 30 years of development and deployment.

 

[dalola]

I'm the target audience of an EREV truck.

I have a Powerboost F150 and I tow an RV on as many as 1/2 the weekends a year.
I also have the Mach-E, so I absolutely know what is so amazing about EV's.

I would love to have a Lightning as my tow vehicle, rather than the Powerboost. And if the Lightning could actually replace the Powerboost, I wouldn't need the Mach-E for my daily beater!

An EREV Lightning could do just that! Replace both my Powerboost and my daily EV. My daily driving would still be 100% EV, and my weekend towing and boondocking would still be a ProPower onboard truck.

Still, I agree that my needs/requirements are a bit niche by mass production standards. But I'm far from the only Powerboost owner who wants a Powerboost with a larger HV battery and more powerful electric drive motor.

Recently I saw somewhere where the Powerboost was as much as 30% of F150 sales. I don't know how true that is but at 10% it would be far more than the Lightning sales turned out to be.

I mean, technically, your PB could satisfy your single vehicle necessity. The minimal gas cost would be far cheaper than the cost of the MachE, if that is your angle.

I guess it just really depends on Fords execution, as to how popular an EREV F150 might be. If they can put together some really solid numbers for cost, efficiency, capability, & versatility, who knows, maybe it will be a hit. I honestly hope I'm wrong, but I'm not optimistic.

 

[Jimrpa]

Some hybrids are series/parallel. Toyota in particular. A number of Ford's hybrid offerings used a similar design to Toyota's which is why they cross licensed eachother's designs back in the mid to late 2000s.

The Chevy Volt was a plug-in series/parallel hybrid with the ability to uncouple the drive wheels from the engine through a set of clutches. Most of the time it ran the engine in generator-only mode.

The BMW i3 BEV was available as an EREV, but wasn't considered a series hybrid because the small gas engine was there only to do range extension to a limited level, and had a super small gas tank. The idea being that it was for emergency use only and drivers should be plugging in and using that as their main source of propulsion. At least that's what the regulators wanted.

If you already have a good hybrid design, adding a larger battery so it can be a PHEV doesn't compromise much, if at all. Toyota's hybrid design is pretty much bullet-proof after nearly 30 years of development and deployment.

That’s all good additional context. I wasn’t trying to provide an exhaustive survey off all types of hybrid systems (for example, one could argue the various vehicles with solar panels that are periodically teased are “hybrid”).

 

[AZBill]

Ok. So what is the apples to apples comparison for truck stuff?

Towing is definitely "truck stuff". There are multiple cases for that. Contractors need to haul heavy equipment or supplies locally, then there are cases of pulling camper trailers long distances. Electric motors, with a lot of torque, are great for towing, especially up hills. The one use case currently not supported by any EV truck is pulling a fifth wheel or a gooseneck trailer. If the EREV could do that, it would significantly expand the use cases. Today, it takes an F250 class truck to do that.

 

[Snakebitten]

I mean, technically, your PB could satisfy your single vehicle necessity. The minimal gas cost would be far cheaper than the cost of the MachE, if that is your angle.

My affinity for EV'ing has almost nothing to do with fuel savings/cost. Rather I simply find electric torque so much more enjoyable than fuel/air torque.

You are absolutely correct that the Powerboost is more than capable of handling my RV/boondocking and my daily commuting. But the Powerboost is barely an EV experience.

The hypothetical EREV truck would be an EV Powerboost for towing and boondocking, but a Lightning for some number of miles of commuting daily. (with L2 Home charging)

On paper, it promises me cake and I get to eat it too.

 

[nvabill]

Ford is following the Ram playbook almost exactly by cancelling the all electric truck and allegedly coming out with the Ram 1500 REV (Range Extended Vehicle). Will be interesting to see if Ram even brings it to market and once they do how does the market respond. This will allow Ford a chance to not be the first one into the water.

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