Hertz "Horror Show"

[Mach1E]

Inflation is increasing the cost of groceries and other necessary goods and services, leaving people with less disposable income and less money to buy a car. Not only that, inflation is driving up interest rates which makes it harder for people to afford a new car loan. So car sales are going down, and lowering the price of a new Teala will mean more people can afford to buy one. So inflation is directly responsible for Tesla lowering the price of their vehicles.

Inflation could have that effect if in a recession or a period of decreased money supply where people are forced to choose between necessities (food, medicine, shelter) and luxuries (vacations and new cars).

However, that is not the market cycle we are in. In fact we have the opposite problem (too much cash and money supply).

Here is a chart of US household checkable deposits. Basically how much cash we have in the bank. Normal healthy 2019 economy- $1.2 trillion. Today? About $4 trillion!
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGZ1FL193020005Q


We (BEV market) are feeling the effects of manufacturers over supplying the market with inventory (they thought BEV demand was higher) and at the same time the manufacturer who sells HALF of the market undercutting everyone on price significantly.

Had Tesla kept their prices the same last year, we wouldn’t have Mach Es rotting on lots. But neither would have happened if the manufacturers didn’t build too many.

You are right that interest rates negatively impact the car market. But with how much cash is out there, people could afford new cars if they wanted to.

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[azerik]

Because $29 an hour for a shift manager at Panda Express is reasonable pay. For what?
Those who are mostly bill free are stuffing money away for fear of the future. I know I’m pushing almost all my toy money into my retirement accounts. Hell I’ve put off fixing my pool ‘properly’ for nearly 5 years because I got a $37k quote 4 years ago. Called the same company back for
An est last week, $17k. Because hardly anyone is spending that money anymore they went back to reasonable pricing. The auto market was hot because of the rage buying of stupidly over priced vehicles manufactures thought they’d pump out year after year and continue raising prices. Good to see them kicked square in the jewels back to reality. Maybe another year and other things would become reasonable again. Seeing as refrigerators seem to be $3k for a pos with a 6 month warranty I’d hope they’re next.

 

[OcSteve39]

364 false stolen claims resulting in charges and jail time in some circumstances couldn't have helped either.

YIKES!

 

[DennisD]

Totally Deserving Savant

So you are suggesting the acronym of a "Savant" fits my description? Nice

Google it. You just have it with Musk.

We have one poster here pointing out the fact the Musk took a fledgling EV company that in turn was using an EV driveline architecture designed by a tech developer into a manufacture that commands well over 50% of the EV market share. A manufacturer that, by your account, controls the EV market. And in fact most MME owners here are wetting their pants over getting a free dongle and app (designed and manufactured by Tesla) that will allow them to use Tesla's superior charging network.

But you call Musk an effing snake oil salesman. Your hatred of the man is a form of Derangement Syndrome.

You know, I was guessing that you meant "Trump Derangement Syndrome" when you said I have TDS but I was confused when you called me that and I had not mentioned Trump's name but rather Elon? I guess going forward no one is allowed to criticize someone w/o being labeled as being deranged? If that is your standard "comeback" then I guess I will just call you a "stinky head" and we can pretend we are all in the 1st. Grade.

I did however speak of a "Snake Oil Salesman". You heard Snake Oil Salesman and the first thought in your head was Trump. You are projecting btw. You actually may be suffering from TDS?


Now you injected politics in this thread by mentioning the inference of Trump and that is not allowed. I would suggest not mentioning the aforementioned and keep politics out of this thread going forward. Slick move by just mentioning "Google it" but none the less, you inferred it. Let's just drop the whole "TDS" BS.

Secondly, I went back into the postings and you first mentioned Elon in post #35 and I first mentioned him in post #47. I was actually replying to someone that was talking about Elon and really wasn't planning on this thread evolving into an Elon Musk Show if you will.

You specifically pointed out from said article that Hertz shouldn't have trusted Musk when he said the value of the cars would appreciate. I replied in agreement with you of most of your postings. I even stated that I agree with you and I actually thanked you and you suggest I am the one that has "TDS".

You seem like a smart man and I am not just saying that however, you do seem to inadvertently help me in "my side" of the debate more than you realize.

Enjoy the day..................

 

[DennisD]

I didn't mention Musk first in this thread, post #5 is where Elon came up as part of the discussion.

10 years ago when Musk was promoting EV, stated he wanted to change the world from ICEV to EV, opened his EV patents to anyone to use so as to promote other manufacturers to catch up to Tesla, EVERYONE (who is on the side of the climate) loved Elon Musk.

Then when California shut down his factory just as he was trying to ramp up Model 3 production in COVID times and Musk moved Tesla to Texas, the same EVERYONE turned on his ass overnight. Then Musk bought Twitter and the same EVERYONE freaked the eff out over it. All of a sudden Musk's politics didn't fit the Movement. That same type of progression happened with the former President. EVERYONE loved him until he came down the escalator in 2015. So I used TDS as an analogy.

"TDS" (in social media) is now like "Xerox" (it means photocopying if you are too young to know) which is how I used it in this instance; MDS has not yet been coined on social media as M*** Derangement Syndrome, so if I had used MDS it wouldn't have had any meaning.

I didn't bring politics into this thread. Two CEOs made poor business decisions, but for some reason everyone jumps on Musk rather the the Hertz CEO. And Yahoo News was quoted as implying Hertz decisions were completely made based on an unverified statement from Musk.

I've led a mature, business discussion with my posts. You've injected your personal feelings in to the discussion.

Like I said earlier, no ulitarian car used for rental duty, appreciates in value. Even the original Hertz Shelby GT350-H didn't appreciate when first off loaded in the 1960's and 1970s. They actually were 10% to 20% lower in resale value than an non-Hertz Shelby GT350.
So, if Scherr thought Tesla EVs were going to go thru rental duty and then have more value when sold off, he's a complete dumbass, regardless of what Musk reportedly said.

You stated,
"I've led a mature, business discussion with my posts. You've injected your personal feelings in to the discussion."

And yet you kept using and labeling me as one having "TDS".

Calling someone deranged is personal and not mature IMHO but I may not be old enough to understand.

?

 

[DennisD]

TDS has become to represent an "irrational hatred of another person". I used it in that context.

You stated, and I quote:

"So, if Scherr thought Tesla EVs were going to go thru rental duty and then have more value when sold off, he's a complete dumbass, regardless of what Musk reportedly said."

You seem to have perfected the art of "projection" from where I am sitting.

Please don't use the label of "TDS" if you, yourself has that quality from your own description.

It not only sounds childish, but it is commonly used to try and shut down a rational discussion.

 

[DennisD]

I have no irrational hatred of Scherr, so TDS doesn't apply in my situation. I said IF Scherr... I don't believe the Yahoo News inference Scherr based the decision to order 100,000 Teslas based on Musk stating the cars will appreciate in value.

I do think Scherr doesn't well understand the car rental business if he thought EV would be a good rental product under the current state of EV adoption and infrastructure support.

So by you suggesting that he may be a dumbass is okay?

If you truly didn't "hate" the person, you may have used a better descriptor with verbiage as ill advised, poorly thought out or similar to that.

You chose the word "dumbass" and you are trying to suggest that he may or may not be a "dumbass".

Please do me a favor and look up

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/self-inflicted

If you want to continue this back and forth, please be my guest. ?

 

[mkhuffman]

So you are suggesting the acronym of a "Savant" fits my description? Nice

FYI - it was intended as a insult. It was intended to be a joke. I was trying to think of something that fit that acronym that was not insulting...

 

[DennisD]

FYI - it was intended as a insult. It was intended to be a joke. I was trying to think of something that fit that acronym that was not insulting...

I got a chuckle from your response.

I know you meant isn't rather than it was but it was funny none the less.

No hard feelings here but I thought it was a cheap shot to suggest I have TDS from the other poster.

Have a good one,

 

[Mach1E]

But the value of the cash is less due inflation.

Tesla cut the prices of its cars because the market passed peak demand. It happens with nearly every car model from every manufacturer since the start of the industry 120 years ago.

Nothing about the current cash supply (unprecedented) and the drastic price cuts of Tesla ($20-50k per model in a few short months) is normal.

You are talking about it like it is business as usual.

Unprecedented, plain and simple.

You are both talking about opposites as well. Inflation and drastic price drops don’t usually go hand in hand.

Demand for EVs didn’t decrease either, the total number sold ROSE last year.

Manufacturers just overshot that number with excess supply.

 

[DennisD]

Nothing about the current cash supply (unprecedented) and the drastic price cuts of Tesla ($20-50k per model in a few short months) is normal.

You are talking about it like it is business as usual.

Unprecedented, plain and simple.

You are both talking about opposites as well. Inflation and drastic price drops don’t usually go hand in hand.

Demand for EVs didn’t decrease either, the total number sold ROSE last year.

Manufacturers just overshot that number with excess supply.

In all fairness, if they would have had more EV's on the lots a couple of years ago they would have sold more than they currently are.

The reason the sales have risen are on two fronts:

1. Lower cost
2. Vehicles on hand

Take those two situations away and the EV's would barely move in today's climate. There is no way the EV sales would survive at the "old rates". Demand would be at a standstill.

 

[Mach1E]

I think I said the EV market passed peak demand, which means the growth curve flattens out a bit. Tesla have passed peak demand. They have not significantly redesigned any of the four models they produce since any were introduced. Yes, the Model 3 is getting a sheet metal and bumper update, but nothing drastic. The Model S regained its grille and got a horizontal 16:9 TV screen (looks much better IMO). But pulling one single manufacturer's price cuts on their models and comparing it to be in difference to inflation as if that is the industry trend is misleading. In general, all automotive products are increasing in price and the cost to borrow money to buy those cars is increasing. Along with food and fuel prices increasing. All sort of usual.

Unprecedented cash supply and unprecedented inflation go hand in hand. The Fed has been printing money in trillions since COVID, so duh. And unprecedented interest rates to slow down inflation (well not as bad as the late 1970's and early 1980's), all sort of usual.

Agree with most of what you said here, just disagree with the premise of the prior post as to what the “problem” is at the moment.

I don’t think it’s demand (total EV sales still rising).

I don’t think it’s inflation (prices going up).

I don’t think it’s money supply (we have more money than ever out there).

I think the manufacturers overestimated demand and built too many cars. The problem is oversupply.

It’s not interest rates either (manufacturers are offering very low rates on new EVs).

Demand is still rising, just not as fast as they thought. And too many manufacturers entered the EV market at the same time.

As always there are many factors at play. I just think the one main issue was oversupply.

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