Hyundai Ionic 5 vs. Mustang Mach-E

[AllenXS]

It’s a car @Jimrpa but not as we know it! Thanks for the brief thoughts, best read of 24 so far

The Mach-E is still a good all round performer for where things are at now, and I like it more now that I can pop my frunk when approaching it!

Tesla has “better” software yet I haven’t seen drivers with their hands off the Tesla steering wheel as I go past with both hands waving to them. Regardless would never have contemplated being driven by a robot.

Sponsored

 

[kindofblue]

Yep, the i4 that I test drove was pretty good, and it was an M30 (RWD only).

I have a 2033 i4 40eDrive (RWD) and it's just as fast as our 2022 MME AWD.

 

[Jimrpa]

I have a 2033 i4 40eDrive (RWD) and it's just as fast as our 2022 MME AWD.

Nice! My biggest complaints about the BMW were the lack of a frunk (that would almost rule it out from serious consideration) and the lack of AWD (apparently, instead of two motors, they just use one motor and a transfer case).

 

[pcaw2003]

This was a great write-up and comparison of these two cars, and I agree with the OP’s commentary in nearly all respects.

I’ve gotten to know the 2023 Ioniq 5 SEL AWD quite well, as I’ve been driving it both as a daily driver and road tripper for the past 4 months. I’ve driven nearly 7,000 miles over that time, much of which was on cold weather trips up to Vermont for skiing.

I cannot comment on all of the features, however, as it’s not actually my car. It’s a dealer loaner that I’ve had ever since the dealer took my 2021 Kona EV Ultimate in for warranty repairs (full HVB replacement) back in November last year! Hyundai has offered to buy back that car, so I happily picked up my 2023 MME Premium AWD Extended Range recently.

BTW – in another example of the grass isn’t always greener, Hyundai, Genesis, and Kia just announced a massive recall of basically all of their recent EV models for a battery control issue. So the MME is not the only one facing such growing pains in this emerging technology.

Advantage I5:

• Ride comfort
  • IMO, this is the biggest advantage of the I5. The suspension is very nicely tuned. Not plush, but also not too sporty-firm. Just smooth. The MME is bouncier and unsettled over rough pavement. Concerns about the suspension and ride quality were my single biggest hesitation when shopping for a MME.
• Driver seat comfort
  • As the OP noted, the I5’s driver seat tilts fore and aft, which is great if you like more thigh support or to sit deeper in the seat bucket-style. They also have better side bolstering.
  • The MME’s seats seem comfortable enough, just a little too flat for me – both forward to back and on the sides.
• DCFC
  • While I5 has the edge in DCFC based upon its 800v architecture and theoretical fast charging speeds, I didn’t find this to be as big an advantage in the real world. On my road trips over the winter, I never saw much more than 150kW speeds, which is what the MME can do. Some of that was due to the cold weather. But more often it was due to limitations on the chargers themselves.
  • Maybe someday when 350 kW chargers are plentiful, those vaunted 10-80 charge times will be real. In that sense, the I5 is more future-proofed.
  • One indisputable advantage of the I5 is the information available on the screen when fast charging (kW speed, etc.). Ford really needs to fix this in the MME.
• Acceleration
  • I test drove a few GTs and GTPEs when shopping around, so I know MME’s can be a lot quicker than my Premium 4x. But as between these mid-level trims, the I5 feels significantly quicker. I will miss that bit of extra oomph when I return that car. But not enough to spend several thousand dollars more to get the MME GTs.
• Drive modes
  • All 3 of the MMEs drive modes are useable, whereas the I5 really only has 2 – Normal and Sport. The Eco mode is like voluntarily imposing Turtle mode on the car! You can floor it and this otherwise very powerful car accelerates like a Ford Fiesta. I don’t know why anyone would want such an extreme restriction.
  • But the problem with the MME is that its Drive Modes are in the screen. It takes at least two taps to switch modes. For me, this is the biggest “why is it in the screen?” inconvenience of the MME so far. Like heated seats, this is feature that is used frequently and needs a physical button (or at least permanent, 1-tap screen button). Ideally, this would be on the steering wheel, as you often want to access it while driving, like when coming up to one of the full-stop mergers onto the 55 mph parkways here in NY and CT. It’s nice to be able to switch over into Sport mode without taking your hands off the wheel (or eyes off the road).
  • The I5 has a very convenient drive mode button on the steering wheel. The button kind of hangs out there by itself, and it makes the steering wheel asymmetric. So it looks bit weird. But I’d still rather have that than access only via the screen.
• Rear seat comfort / spaciousness
  • Both cars have decent space for rear passengers. But the I5 is next level, with its sliding rear seats and ability to recline. Also, the I5 have the HVAC vents in the side pillars, which seems like it’s better for rear passengers and pets.
• Hands free liftgate
  • This feature works well on the I5, although those 3-4 seconds of beeping before it lifts up can seem like a loooong time. Still, it works when your hands are full, so no complaints.
  • Not only does my 2023 MME lack the hands-free feature that was in earlier models, but it also frequently glitches, popping open and stopping a few inches up for reasons unknown. So, it often requires two presses of that button to open fully. Very irritating! I hope this is one that Ford can eventually fix with an OTA update.
• Warranty & complementary maintenance
  • Hyundai’s warranties are top of class. Ford’s really don’t come close.
  • Hyundai also offers 3-year free maintenance. For EVs, there’s not much to do, but it’s still nice to get free tire rotations and health checks at the dealerships.
• Alert when vehicle is left on w/o the key inside
  • The I5 (and my Kona EV) let out a pretty irritating squeal when you exit the car with the key while it’s still on. But it’s still better than the MME’s startling honks!

Advantage MME:

• Exterior design & styling
  • This is obviously personal preference and subjective, but I think the MME is one of the best-looking cars in recent memory. I can appreciate the 80s throwback, pixelated retro-cool vibe in the I5. At least it’s not boring like many crossover/SUV models. But it just doesn’t catch my eye the way the MME does.
• Interior design & materials quality
  • The soft-touch materials, fabrics, and stitching on the Mach-E are much nicer looking than the I5. IMO, the I5 isn’t bad. Its salon is really spacious and comfortable. Very minimalistic and clean, but not as refined.
• Sunglasses holder
  • My 2021 Kona EV had this, as does the MME. But the I5 doesn’t! And I think they deleted it from the 2024 Kona EV refresh. Why, Hyundai why? Who doesn’t want a sunglasses holder in the car?
  • Only complaint for the MME – there should be felt or some other anti-scratch lining in sunglasses holder. It’s sole purpose is to hold things with easily scratchable lenses.
• Panoramic glass roof
  • I know the I5 Limited trim has a glass roof. But as between the mid-specs, the MME Premium has it, and the I5 SEL does not. I love the glass roof and think Ford did a great job with tinting.
• Cargo space
  • MME has slightly more cargo space and it’s easier to put the back seats down. You can do it from the rear while the hatch is open. It’s a bit of a stretch and manual, but it can be done.
  • For the I5, you cannot put the rear seats down from the back. You need to pull a lever on the side of the seats, which you can only access by coming around and opening the rear side doors. This is the downside to having rear seats that can both move fore and aft and recline (see I5 advantages above).
• Advanced Driver Assistance
  • I just got my MME, so it seems to be equipped with BlueCruise 1.2 or 1.3. (I have no idea how to tell.) My experience thus far with the hands-free cruise control has been quite good. I really like how the car subtly shifts over when passing by an 18-wheeler or other large vehicle. Seems very natural. Very steady lane orientation and smooth lane changes that inspire confidence. It’s easy to take over whenever you want, and as soon as you’ve finished your maneuver, BC re-engages. In good weather, it disengages on its own very rarely. On a recent rainy day, it disengaged much more frequently, which I suppose is to be expected.
  • No hands-free driver assistance with the I5. The hands-on adaptive cruise control is decent, although I found it bounced more between sides of the lane more often than the MME (still, pretty rare). I’ve read on this forum that earlier versions of BC were the same, so sorry to those still stuck on BC 1.0.
  • As the OP noted, on certain divided, controlled access highways the I5’s lane change assist feature will turn on, but it’s so very fickle. You need to keep your hands on the wheel and apply just enough pressure so the system knows your still there, but not enough to make it cancel out due to “driver input”. I found this useful only as a sort of game to play on long, open, boring stretches of highway. The goal is to see if you can find that, perfect, “Goldilocks” touch needed to complete an assisted lane change without disengagement. It’s quite challenging and requires a bit of concentration! Otherwise, it’s an utterly pointless feature. If I could figure out how to turn it off, while keeping the other adaptive cruise control features active, I would.
• App and remote start
  • FordPass is free to use, whereas Hyundai offers BlueLink app connectivity for free the first 3 years, but you have to pay after that. (I’ve heard other companies like Toyota and Honda are even shorter – just 1 year before you have to pay.)
  • I like that the remote start warms or cools the car based upon your last settings, so it will also turn on the heated seats & steering wheel.
  • I couldn’t use the BlueLink app with the I5, but with my Kona, it could not turn on the heated (or ventilated) seats remotely. And in general, it seemed like it had fewer things it could do and froze or glitched quite often.
• Configurability
  • One could get lost for hours in the MME’s options and controls. The I5 has some customization, but not nearly as much.
  • Now if only there were a control to turn off those honks when you leave the car on…
• Charging port
  • The I5’s charge port door is motorized, which is more chic and futuristic than the MME’s standard push to pop-out mechanism, which is reminiscent of an ICE car.
  • But any points in the I5’s favor are immediately lost once the charge port is open. As the OP noted, on the I5, the DCFC pins are protected by a rubbery plastic cap that can be very hard to shimmy off, especially in cold weather! Even in nicer weather it’s a pain, and I’m constantly worried I tear the tether that keeps the cap from falling off. The MME’s DCFC pin cap has a simple flip down hard cap. Much nicer and easier to use.
• Sound system
  • Perhaps the I5 Limited has something better. But as between the mid-spec trims (Premium / SEL), the MME’s B&O system sounds much better to me. It definitely has way more bass.
• Apple Car Play / Android Auto
  • Wireless in the MME, and at least for me, it’s worked flawlessly every time I’ve driven it. I’ve read some complaints about reliability on this forum. Not sure if I’ve been lucky or an OTA has fixed that issue. But I hope it continues to work as it has!
  • Still wired only in the I5. Plus, as the OP noted, the USB-A port that transfers data to the infotainment screen is comically far away. You need a really long cord to run from there to the center console where you’d naturally keep your phone.
  • Apple Maps integration into the IPC in MME, but not in I5.
• Door handles + locks:
  • I hate, and I mean really hate, the I5’s door handles and locking system, for so many reasons:
  • Like many EVs, the door handles are usually flush with the body to improve range, and they only present themselves when you approach with the key. Most of the time, that works, but not always. If it doesn’t, then you have to push this little square on the handle to lock or unlock. This square is apparently touch or pressure sensitive, but it’s not a real button. Pushing against that hard plastic, particularly in the cold, is unpleasant. And it can be hard to find that little square in the dark or when you have gloves/mittens on.
  • Even worse, there are times when those buttons don’t work at all. For example, if you stop somewhere briefly, jump out to get something out on the other side while the car is still on, the passenger side doors won’t unlock, even if you have the fob right in your pocket! Even pushing the unlock button on the fob doesn’t work! You either need to turn the car off (then all doors unlock by default) or go back around to the driver’s side and unlock all doors using the interior buttons. It’s infuriating.
  • Those unlock squares are only on the front doors; nothing on the rear doors at all.
  • No walk-away auto locks. You have to push that stupid square on the handle every, single time (or get the key fob out of your pocket) to lock the doors.
  • The handles can get iced in and won’t pop out when you approach. This happened recently. You have to sort of bash them free by poking at one side with your fingers. Then they can motor out.
  • Note: there might be something you can do about the handles and locks via the BlueLink app, but I wouldn’t know because the I5 is a loaner, and my BlueLink account is linked to my Kona EV.
  • So far, I much prefer the MME push button system. It works nicely on all doors, and the walk-away auto locks are very convenient. We’ll see how it handles the snow and ice next winter…
• Rear windshield wiper
  • I’ve seen the complaints on this forum that the MME’s rear wiper is too short, but at least it has one! The 2022-2023 I5s don’t, and its rear window gets so covered with grim, especially in the winter, that it becomes completely opaque. I’ve needed to stop at gas stations on my way back from ski trips just to use window squeegees to clean off that rear window so I can see something. Luckly no gas station attendant has ever come out to challenge me for using the squeegee without gassing up, like in that one car commercial.
  • Hyundai clearly understands this was a big miss. They are adding a rear wiper to the updated I5 for 2024.
• Heated seats & steering wheel
  • After the stupid door handles, this the second most irritating thing. The MME lacks physical buttons for one of the most used features in cold climates, but at least it’s fixed and easily accessible on the infotainment screen.
  • The I5 inexplicably buries the heated seat & steering wheel controls deep in the infotainment menu! It’s such a hassle that I use voice commands instead. But for that, you need to wait for the system to boot up and then give two commands at the start of nearly every drive. So dumb.

Jury is still out:

• Instrument cluster
  • Both have it, which is already a huge advantage over the Teslas. I5’s is larger, more customizable, and has more info. The MME is smaller, but also seems like that makes the key info easier to find/see. I will have to spend more time with the MME before making any conclusions.
• Infotainment screen
  • Still getting use to the huge 15” vertical screen, but so far, I am leaning toward MME on this one. I like how I can so easily see and hop between my SXM presets and how big the maps (both native and via ACP) look.
  • I did like how the I5’s screens were lined up with each other though. It creates a more continuous flow. Also, I liked that you could split the infotainment screen to show the navigation on the left 2/3 and the SXM station (or any of several other widgets, like battery charge, weather, compass, and such) on the right 1/3.
• Range
  • The I5 loaner had the big battery. During winter, it would only get about 200 miles of range with 100% charge. I5 has the heat pump, and MME doesn’t, which I understand is a big drawback in cold climates. It will be interesting to see how the MME performs next ski season, but it starts off with the range advantage…
• Built-in navigation
  • The OP noted the poor navigation to charging stations on the I5. I can’t contest that. As a 3-year Hyundai EV owner, I’ve pretty much given up on using the built-in nav for EV route planning. Even with BlueLink on, it seems the real time status of anything, whether EV chargers or even traffic conditions, is very poor.
  • But I liked how the built-in nav worked when just used to go to regular destinations or addresses. The turn-by-turn directions were incorporated nicely into the IPC, and it seemed just as accurate as Google Maps or Waze when it came to actually reaching your destination. One of my favorite features is how it showed the best lane to be in when approaching any intersection or fork in the road. For example, if there were several left turn lanes, it would highlight the best lane (based upon what turns come next) in blue, whereas the other possible, but sub-optimal, lanes would be in white. This was incredibly helpful when driving in places like north NJ or NoVA where the roads and interchanges make no sense at all.
  • I haven’t taken the MME on any long road trips yet, but I am excited to try the built-in EV route planning and navigation when I do. I hope it’s a better experience!
• Frunk
  • Kona didn’t have it, and I never used the puny one in the I5. Not sure if I ever will with the MME. But the fact it has a drain is sort of cool. Time will tell.
• 1-pedal driving
  • Agree with the OP that Hyundai nailed 1-pedal drive with I5 (which they call “i-pedal”). It is silky smooth coming to a complete stop, and I think the regen braking is a bit stronger than the MME when your foot is entirely off the accelerator.
  • But that slightly more refined 1-pedal drive is a bit of a hassle to use in the I5. You cannot set it as your default in the driver profiles. The best you can do is set the highest level of regen (Level 3). Then to get to i-pedal, you need to give the regen paddles at least 1 pull … every … single … time you restart the car. So odd.

This was originally intended to be my first-time observations driving a Tesla Model 3, but then Avis (not the Krill god, the rental car company - even though they’re pretty indistinguishable) happened, and the Krill (er, “agent”) at the Avis desk tried to stick me with a Chevy Suburban. She made it quite clear that I should consider myself lucky that I was getting her precious Ionic 5.

Anyway, on to the Ionic 5:

First Impressions:

• Very cheap interior. If you’re a fan of hard plastics, and the finest in synthetic burlap seat coverings, have I got the car for you! The interior aesthetic seems to be mid-90s Geo Metro.
• Only USB-A outlets; no USB-C outlets. Ok, so I had to stop by a gas station and buy a USB-A to USB-C cable, and the station attendant admonished me that they were non-returnable if it didn’t work. It worked, which leads us to…
• No wireless Apple CarPlay. That’s right - in this technological tour de force, this pinnacle of Hyundai’s engineering prowess, they haven’t implemented Apple CarPlay.
• The in-car navigation system is a piece of junk. (I’ll explain in a moment.) This is why I had to get Apple CarPlay running, even though I don’t even like Apple CarPlay. I needed a reliable navigation system.
• No way to figure out what model you have. I had to resort to a Hyundai VIN decoder to figure out I had a MY23 SEL.

First Comments on Driving Experience:

It took me a while to get the car configured the way I want (basically, all the safety systems turned on, radio tone controls set to flat, and balance/fade to center, etc). It was mostly just getting used to a different set of names and “thought process”. Happily, the seats in the crappy interior were power and included fore and aft tilt (Hey, Ford Motor Company, did you hear that? Even the crappy Hyundai interior had power fore and aft tilt on their seats ). The seats were rough and unattractive, but not terribly uncomfortable. I never found a good position for the steering wheel to feel comfortable (yes, I tried various steering wheel adjustments), so I just got it to the best I could and gave up.

After getting the vehicle configured, I was off to find a charger (because, of course, Avis gave me a car with 50% battery ). So, first I try looking for a charger using the cars Nav system. It does display a list of chargers (after rooting around a bit), and I select the nearest one on the list. The navigation system guides me to the middle of some residential development, then proudly announces that “I’ve arrived!”. So, I pull up PlugShare and look for a nearby DCFC. According to PlugShare, there’s one in a Walmart parking lot not too far away, so I punch in the address (123 Any Street, Las Vegas) into the stupid nav system and it takes me to … an empty lot surrounded by a bunch of industrial warehouses (and by “empty lot”, no, I don’t mean “lot in the process of being developed into a future Walmart location”, I mean “empty lot where you could probably hang out and obtain all of your illicit drug needs.”.) So, the navigation system has proven itself less useful than the first iteration of Apple Maps, so I give up on it and use Apple Maps on CarPlay. Which promptly guides me to a nearby set of chargers at an outlet mall - which are, of course, all full ‍). A few chargers later, I find an open EA charger and, after a false start, am able to charge the car. Of course, something weird about this car is that you open the charge port cover using a button on the fob (more later), which struck me as even stupider than our charge port doors. Then, instead of a little flap to flip down for the DC pins, there is a tight-fitting plug with no easy way to tug it off. But at least their charge port is in a Tesla-friendly location (it’s on the passenger rear quarter panel). Also, when I went to close it, it turns out that you can open it by pushing on it, just like ours. Charging didn’t seem that different than our cars. I think the maximum charge rate I saw was about 130 KW.

The car handled well and accelerated nicely. It has these stupid flappy-paddles that, instead of selecting gears, turn on and off the one-pedal mode (they call it “i-Pedal” and Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave). They have absolutely NAILED one-pedal mode. When the car comes to a complete stop, it’s like butter. I had no idea what the tiny “jerk” people complain about was until I drove this car. It came to a stop totally smoothly. (Hey, Ford Motor Company, check out Hyundai’s “i-Pedal” and use it as your benchmark for 1-pedal mode!) Sadly, I-pedal didn’t stick between key cycles. The default was no regeneration. This was sad.

Shifting gears was weird. I haven’t seen “three on the tree” since the Brazilian Ford LTDs (based on 1960s LTDs) in the early 1970s.the steering wheel conveniently hid the shift lever, so you always had to glance around to see it.

Hyundai used a clever optical effect to make their displays look larger than they actually are (the reality is that they’re TINY). They used a background color on the displays that was the same color as the huge grey plastic bezels surrounding them. Hence, the displays “faded” into the bezel and looked much larger than they actually were. The net effect of this was that you saw very small areas of maps on Apple CarPlay, and that there really wasn’t a lot of room on the instrument panel.


The vehicle had our equivalent of adaptive cruise control, lane keeping assist, lane centering assist, and speed sign recognition. It did not have a “hands-free” mode, like BlueCruise, but you could take your hands off the steering wheel for about 1 minute before it began whining at you. It had cute animations on the instrument panel of the vehicles around you that it was able to sense, so you could see someone coming up and overtaking you on your left or right. I suppose you could ALSO see those if you looked outside and/or at your mirrors. Speaking of which, it had blind spot sensors, but the indicators weren’t in the mirrors, they were on the instrument panel. A set of segments would light up red just beyond the rear quarter panel of the car on the side the obstacle was on.

It had lane change assist, but I didn’t understand the value (maybe I’m too stupid). All that happened was, you turned on a turn signal and, if the lane you were signaling to change into was clear, it would be highlighted in green on the instrument panel.

I think it had a power meter, but I’m not sure what the utility was. It was just an animation next to the car that changed blue or red depending on which way the animation was moving. There was no scale or anything.

The center console was useless. It was divided into three areas - The armrest, which didn’t have a large compartment beneath it. It did have a very small compartment in the lid though, much like my old escape. I liked that small compartment. It had a set of stand-alone cupholders with two USB-A ports, just in front of the armrest (but not connected to the armrest - these were a separate module). Those USB-A ports were charge only. No data. Then, about 8 inches forward of the cupholder module was a final small bin with another USB-A port on it. THIS was the port that handled data, and you had to use to drive CarPlay. There really was no convenient place to stick your phone (I ended up just keeping my phone in one of the cupholders).

Final thoughts:

I really wanted to drive the Tesla Model 3 just so I could shut my buddy (who is a Tesla Fanboy) up. The Ionic 5 isn’t a bad car, but there are a lot of little things I just didn’t like - screen sizes, cheap interior, useless nav are the highlights. This is the 3rd EV I’ve driven. So far, I still like the Mustang Mach E the most, followed by the BMW i4 (why no frunk BMW - WHY???), followed by the Ionic 5

 

[voxel]

• Driver seat comfort
  • As the OP noted, the I5’s driver seat tilts fore and aft, which is great if you like more thigh support or to sit deeper in the seat bucket-style. They also have better side bolstering.
  • The MME’s seats seem comfortable enough, just a little too flat for me – both forward to back and on the sides.
• DCFC
  • While I5 has the edge in DCFC based upon its 800v architecture and theoretical fast charging speeds, I didn’t find this to be as big an advantage in the real world. On my road trips over the winter, I never saw much more than 150kW speeds, which is what the MME can do. Some of that was due to the cold weather. But more often it was due to limitations on the chargers themselves.
  • Maybe someday when 350 kW chargers are plentiful, those vaunted 10-80 charge times will be real. In that sense, the I5 is more future-proofed.
  • One indisputable advantage of the I5 is the information available on the screen when fast charging (kW speed, etc.). Ford really needs to fix this in the MME.

Advantage MME:

• Sound system
  • Perhaps the I5 Limited has something better. But as between the mid-spec trims (Premium / SEL), the MME’s B&O system sounds much better to me. It definitely has way more bass.
• Door handles + locks:
  • I hate, and I mean really hate, the I5’s door handles and locking system, for so many reasons:
  • Like many EVs, the door handles are usually flush with the body to improve range, and they only present themselves when you approach with the key. Most of the time, that works, but not always. If it doesn’t, then you have to push this little square on the handle to lock or unlock. This square is apparently touch or pressure sensitive, but it’s not a real button. Pushing against that hard plastic, particularly in the cold, is unpleasant. And it can be hard to find that little square in the dark or when you have gloves/mittens on.

I mostly agree with your assessment but you had a SEL (upper $40s) which is a lower trim than a Premium AWD ER (which was $59K in 2022). A Limited is also $58K.

The Ioniq 5 has crazy fast DC charging. A flat 230 kW from 40-80% - I experienced this numerous times. I don't recall ever stopping more than 15mins for a 50% charge. With my MME 15mins might get me 25% extra SoC.

The Limited seats were painful to me. Every Hyundai/Kia ventilated seat causes me pain but the non ventilated ones do not. They are ultra stiff. The MME has stiff seats too - which is why I use a cushion too.

The Limited's audio is on par with the MME's.... which is to say meh. Not luxury level. Neither are BMW's Harman Kardon quality or Bowers &Wilkins or Mark Levinson or even Teslas.

The auto pop out door handles of the higher trim Ioniq 5 and EV6 are nice. Rivians have the same handles and they work great.

 

[IgorKl]

I had Ioniq 5 limited '22 for couple months and about 6-7K miles. The major positive memory still charging speed and rear seat legroom flexibility, but overall I like MME

 

[pcaw2003]

I was fortunate to get my Premium 4X after recent price reductions. With the $8500 off for leasing and a very motivated dealer, it came to just under $40k before taxes / registration. So now I think pricing wise, the Premium in the same class as SEL. But who knows if Hyundai will response with price cuts of their own.

As for charging speeds, the weather here in the NE was probably a limiting factor too. I’ve driven the car almost exclusively in cold weather. And there aren’t many chargers that can support 200+ kW on my trips up to VT. So I can see how in more ideal circumstances that would be a big advantage. I just wasn’t able to experience it in my 4 month stint with the car. Hope the next gen MME adopts this tech!

I mostly agree with your assessment but you had a SEL (upper $40s) which is a lower trim than a Premium AWD ER (which was $59K in 2022). A Limited is also $58K.

The Ioniq 5 has crazy fast DC charging. A flat 230 kW from 40-80% - I experienced this numerous times. I don't recall ever stopping more than 15mins for a 50% charge. With my MME 15mins might get me 25% extra

 

[voxel]

I was fortunate to get my Premium 4X after recent price reductions. With the $8500 off for leasing and a very motivated dealer, it came to just under $40k before taxes / registration. So now I think pricing wise, the Premium in the same class as SEL. But who knows if Hyundai will response with price cuts of their own.

As for charging speeds, the weather here in the NE was probably a limiting factor too. I’ve driven the car almost exclusively in cold weather. And there aren’t many chargers that can support 200+ kW on my trips up to VT. So I can see how in more ideal circumstances that would be a big advantage. I just wasn’t able to experience it in my 4 month stint with the car. Hope the next gen MME adopts this tech!

There was a short period of time where you could get $15K off the Ioniq 5 (https://www.carsdirect.com/deals-articles/hyundai-ioniq-5-discount-hits-15-000-off-msrp) and I argue the Limited with that discount is a better deal than the MME.

The MME and the Rivian R1S were the two slowest charging EVs (in terms of miles added per minute) I've owned. I saw 190 kW once in the R1S and with the 135 kWh battery pack every stop was 40+ mins. I might have seen sub 190 kW once with the Ioniq 5... maybe when I hit 85% and dropped to 135 kW lol.

I pretty much refuse to take my MME on road trips. 100% gas all the way. I'm a bigger Bronco fan than an EV fan.

I had Ioniq 5 limited '22 for couple months and about 6-7K miles. The major positive memory still charging speed and rear seat legroom flexibility, but overall I like MME

I miss the HUD and normal suspension.

The MME is a better overall EV minus the poor suspension. The Ioniq 5 Limited with the 20" wheels - had poor real world range. While it charged quickly... it had to stop more than I liked. I would have kept it longer but my Rivian R1S arrived earlier than expected....

 

[SWO]

Looks like Kia/Hyundai is recalling all the EGMP cars for 12v issues. Software update, but they can't do it OTA.

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/03/h...000-evs-in-the-u-s-over-potential-power-loss/

 

[vortix]

I will miss that bit of extra oomph when I return that car. But not enough to spend several thousand dollars more to get the MME GTs.

Current incentives and deals on '23 Mach-Es have the GT priced just a hair more than the Premium ER AWD. GTs are available in the $40k-$45k range.

 

[Jimrpa]

Current incentives and deals on '23 Mach-Es have the GT priced just a hair more than the Premium ER AWD. GTs are available in the $40k-$45k range.

That’s probably partly because the MY24 GT will come with higher performance motors.

 

[Mach-Lee]

This was a great write-up and comparison of these two cars, and I agree with the OP’s commentary in nearly all respects.

I’ve gotten to know the 2023 Ioniq 5 SEL AWD quite well, as I’ve been driving it both as a daily driver and road tripper for the past 4 months. I’ve driven nearly 7,000 miles over that time, much of which was on cold weather trips up to Vermont for skiing.

I cannot comment on all of the features, however, as it’s not actually my car. It’s a dealer loaner that I’ve had ever since the dealer took my 2021 Kona EV Ultimate in for warranty repairs (full HVB replacement) back in November last year! Hyundai has offered to buy back that car, so I happily picked up my 2023 MME Premium AWD Extended Range recently.

BTW – in another example of the grass isn’t always greener, Hyundai, Genesis, and Kia just announced a massive recall of basically all of their recent EV models for a battery control issue. So the MME is not the only one facing such growing pains in this emerging technology.

Advantage I5:

• Ride comfort
  • IMO, this is the biggest advantage of the I5. The suspension is very nicely tuned. Not plush, but also not too sporty-firm. Just smooth. The MME is bouncier and unsettled over rough pavement. Concerns about the suspension and ride quality were my single biggest hesitation when shopping for a MME.
• Driver seat comfort
  • As the OP noted, the I5’s driver seat tilts fore and aft, which is great if you like more thigh support or to sit deeper in the seat bucket-style. They also have better side bolstering.
  • The MME’s seats seem comfortable enough, just a little too flat for me – both forward to back and on the sides.
• DCFC
  • While I5 has the edge in DCFC based upon its 800v architecture and theoretical fast charging speeds, I didn’t find this to be as big an advantage in the real world. On my road trips over the winter, I never saw much more than 150kW speeds, which is what the MME can do. Some of that was due to the cold weather. But more often it was due to limitations on the chargers themselves.
  • Maybe someday when 350 kW chargers are plentiful, those vaunted 10-80 charge times will be real. In that sense, the I5 is more future-proofed.
  • One indisputable advantage of the I5 is the information available on the screen when fast charging (kW speed, etc.). Ford really needs to fix this in the MME.
• Acceleration
  • I test drove a few GTs and GTPEs when shopping around, so I know MME’s can be a lot quicker than my Premium 4x. But as between these mid-level trims, the I5 feels significantly quicker. I will miss that bit of extra oomph when I return that car. But not enough to spend several thousand dollars more to get the MME GTs.
• Drive modes
  • All 3 of the MMEs drive modes are useable, whereas the I5 really only has 2 – Normal and Sport. The Eco mode is like voluntarily imposing Turtle mode on the car! You can floor it and this otherwise very powerful car accelerates like a Ford Fiesta. I don’t know why anyone would want such an extreme restriction.
  • But the problem with the MME is that its Drive Modes are in the screen. It takes at least two taps to switch modes. For me, this is the biggest “why is it in the screen?” inconvenience of the MME so far. Like heated seats, this is feature that is used frequently and needs a physical button (or at least permanent, 1-tap screen button). Ideally, this would be on the steering wheel, as you often want to access it while driving, like when coming up to one of the full-stop mergers onto the 55 mph parkways here in NY and CT. It’s nice to be able to switch over into Sport mode without taking your hands off the wheel (or eyes off the road).
  • The I5 has a very convenient drive mode button on the steering wheel. The button kind of hangs out there by itself, and it makes the steering wheel asymmetric. So it looks bit weird. But I’d still rather have that than access only via the screen.
• Rear seat comfort / spaciousness
  • Both cars have decent space for rear passengers. But the I5 is next level, with its sliding rear seats and ability to recline. Also, the I5 have the HVAC vents in the side pillars, which seems like it’s better for rear passengers and pets.
• Hands free liftgate
  • This feature works well on the I5, although those 3-4 seconds of beeping before it lifts up can seem like a loooong time. Still, it works when your hands are full, so no complaints.
  • Not only does my 2023 MME lack the hands-free feature that was in earlier models, but it also frequently glitches, popping open and stopping a few inches up for reasons unknown. So, it often requires two presses of that button to open fully. Very irritating! I hope this is one that Ford can eventually fix with an OTA update.
• Warranty & complementary maintenance
  • Hyundai’s warranties are top of class. Ford’s really don’t come close.
  • Hyundai also offers 3-year free maintenance. For EVs, there’s not much to do, but it’s still nice to get free tire rotations and health checks at the dealerships.
• Alert when vehicle is left on w/o the key inside
  • The I5 (and my Kona EV) let out a pretty irritating squeal when you exit the car with the key while it’s still on. But it’s still better than the MME’s startling honks!

Advantage MME:

• Exterior design & styling
  • This is obviously personal preference and subjective, but I think the MME is one of the best-looking cars in recent memory. I can appreciate the 80s throwback, pixelated retro-cool vibe in the I5. At least it’s not boring like many crossover/SUV models. But it just doesn’t catch my eye the way the MME does.
• Interior design & materials quality
  • The soft-touch materials, fabrics, and stitching on the Mach-E are much nicer looking than the I5. IMO, the I5 isn’t bad. Its salon is really spacious and comfortable. Very minimalistic and clean, but not as refined.
• Sunglasses holder
  • My 2021 Kona EV had this, as does the MME. But the I5 doesn’t! And I think they deleted it from the 2024 Kona EV refresh. Why, Hyundai why? Who doesn’t want a sunglasses holder in the car?
  • Only complaint for the MME – there should be felt or some other anti-scratch lining in sunglasses holder. It’s sole purpose is to hold things with easily scratchable lenses.
• Panoramic glass roof
  • I know the I5 Limited trim has a glass roof. But as between the mid-specs, the MME Premium has it, and the I5 SEL does not. I love the glass roof and think Ford did a great job with tinting.
• Cargo space
  • MME has slightly more cargo space and it’s easier to put the back seats down. You can do it from the rear while the hatch is open. It’s a bit of a stretch and manual, but it can be done.
  • For the I5, you cannot put the rear seats down from the back. You need to pull a lever on the side of the seats, which you can only access by coming around and opening the rear side doors. This is the downside to having rear seats that can both move fore and aft and recline (see I5 advantages above).
• Advanced Driver Assistance
  • I just got my MME, so it seems to be equipped with BlueCruise 1.2 or 1.3. (I have no idea how to tell.) My experience thus far with the hands-free cruise control has been quite good. I really like how the car subtly shifts over when passing by an 18-wheeler or other large vehicle. Seems very natural. Very steady lane orientation and smooth lane changes that inspire confidence. It’s easy to take over whenever you want, and as soon as you’ve finished your maneuver, BC re-engages. In good weather, it disengages on its own very rarely. On a recent rainy day, it disengaged much more frequently, which I suppose is to be expected.
  • No hands-free driver assistance with the I5. The hands-on adaptive cruise control is decent, although I found it bounced more between sides of the lane more often than the MME (still, pretty rare). I’ve read on this forum that earlier versions of BC were the same, so sorry to those still stuck on BC 1.0.
  • As the OP noted, on certain divided, controlled access highways the I5’s lane change assist feature will turn on, but it’s so very fickle. You need to keep your hands on the wheel and apply just enough pressure so the system knows your still there, but not enough to make it cancel out due to “driver input”. I found this useful only as a sort of game to play on long, open, boring stretches of highway. The goal is to see if you can find that, perfect, “Goldilocks” touch needed to complete an assisted lane change without disengagement. It’s quite challenging and requires a bit of concentration! Otherwise, it’s an utterly pointless feature. If I could figure out how to turn it off, while keeping the other adaptive cruise control features active, I would.
• App and remote start
  • FordPass is free to use, whereas Hyundai offers BlueLink app connectivity for free the first 3 years, but you have to pay after that. (I’ve heard other companies like Toyota and Honda are even shorter – just 1 year before you have to pay.)
  • I like that the remote start warms or cools the car based upon your last settings, so it will also turn on the heated seats & steering wheel.
  • I couldn’t use the BlueLink app with the I5, but with my Kona, it could not turn on the heated (or ventilated) seats remotely. And in general, it seemed like it had fewer things it could do and froze or glitched quite often.
• Configurability
  • One could get lost for hours in the MME’s options and controls. The I5 has some customization, but not nearly as much.
  • Now if only there were a control to turn off those honks when you leave the car on…
• Charging port
  • The I5’s charge port door is motorized, which is more chic and futuristic than the MME’s standard push to pop-out mechanism, which is reminiscent of an ICE car.
  • But any points in the I5’s favor are immediately lost once the charge port is open. As the OP noted, on the I5, the DCFC pins are protected by a rubbery plastic cap that can be very hard to shimmy off, especially in cold weather! Even in nicer weather it’s a pain, and I’m constantly worried I tear the tether that keeps the cap from falling off. The MME’s DCFC pin cap has a simple flip down hard cap. Much nicer and easier to use.
• Sound system
  • Perhaps the I5 Limited has something better. But as between the mid-spec trims (Premium / SEL), the MME’s B&O system sounds much better to me. It definitely has way more bass.
• Apple Car Play / Android Auto
  • Wireless in the MME, and at least for me, it’s worked flawlessly every time I’ve driven it. I’ve read some complaints about reliability on this forum. Not sure if I’ve been lucky or an OTA has fixed that issue. But I hope it continues to work as it has!
  • Still wired only in the I5. Plus, as the OP noted, the USB-A port that transfers data to the infotainment screen is comically far away. You need a really long cord to run from there to the center console where you’d naturally keep your phone.
  • Apple Maps integration into the IPC in MME, but not in I5.
• Door handles + locks:
  • I hate, and I mean really hate, the I5’s door handles and locking system, for so many reasons:
  • Like many EVs, the door handles are usually flush with the body to improve range, and they only present themselves when you approach with the key. Most of the time, that works, but not always. If it doesn’t, then you have to push this little square on the handle to lock or unlock. This square is apparently touch or pressure sensitive, but it’s not a real button. Pushing against that hard plastic, particularly in the cold, is unpleasant. And it can be hard to find that little square in the dark or when you have gloves/mittens on.
  • Even worse, there are times when those buttons don’t work at all. For example, if you stop somewhere briefly, jump out to get something out on the other side while the car is still on, the passenger side doors won’t unlock, even if you have the fob right in your pocket! Even pushing the unlock button on the fob doesn’t work! You either need to turn the car off (then all doors unlock by default) or go back around to the driver’s side and unlock all doors using the interior buttons. It’s infuriating.
  • Those unlock squares are only on the front doors; nothing on the rear doors at all.
  • No walk-away auto locks. You have to push that stupid square on the handle every, single time (or get the key fob out of your pocket) to lock the doors.
  • The handles can get iced in and won’t pop out when you approach. This happened recently. You have to sort of bash them free by poking at one side with your fingers. Then they can motor out.
  • Note: there might be something you can do about the handles and locks via the BlueLink app, but I wouldn’t know because the I5 is a loaner, and my BlueLink account is linked to my Kona EV.
  • So far, I much prefer the MME push button system. It works nicely on all doors, and the walk-away auto locks are very convenient. We’ll see how it handles the snow and ice next winter…
• Rear windshield wiper
  • I’ve seen the complaints on this forum that the MME’s rear wiper is too short, but at least it has one! The 2022-2023 I5s don’t, and its rear window gets so covered with grim, especially in the winter, that it becomes completely opaque. I’ve needed to stop at gas stations on my way back from ski trips just to use window squeegees to clean off that rear window so I can see something. Luckly no gas station attendant has ever come out to challenge me for using the squeegee without gassing up, like in that one car commercial.
  • Hyundai clearly understands this was a big miss. They are adding a rear wiper to the updated I5 for 2024.
• Heated seats & steering wheel
  • After the stupid door handles, this the second most irritating thing. The MME lacks physical buttons for one of the most used features in cold climates, but at least it’s fixed and easily accessible on the infotainment screen.
  • The I5 inexplicably buries the heated seat & steering wheel controls deep in the infotainment menu! It’s such a hassle that I use voice commands instead. But for that, you need to wait for the system to boot up and then give two commands at the start of nearly every drive. So dumb.

Jury is still out:

• Instrument cluster
  • Both have it, which is already a huge advantage over the Teslas. I5’s is larger, more customizable, and has more info. The MME is smaller, but also seems like that makes the key info easier to find/see. I will have to spend more time with the MME before making any conclusions.
• Infotainment screen
  • Still getting use to the huge 15” vertical screen, but so far, I am leaning toward MME on this one. I like how I can so easily see and hop between my SXM presets and how big the maps (both native and via ACP) look.
  • I did like how the I5’s screens were lined up with each other though. It creates a more continuous flow. Also, I liked that you could split the infotainment screen to show the navigation on the left 2/3 and the SXM station (or any of several other widgets, like battery charge, weather, compass, and such) on the right 1/3.
• Range
  • The I5 loaner had the big battery. During winter, it would only get about 200 miles of range with 100% charge. I5 has the heat pump, and MME doesn’t, which I understand is a big drawback in cold climates. It will be interesting to see how the MME performs next ski season, but it starts off with the range advantage…
• Built-in navigation
  • The OP noted the poor navigation to charging stations on the I5. I can’t contest that. As a 3-year Hyundai EV owner, I’ve pretty much given up on using the built-in nav for EV route planning. Even with BlueLink on, it seems the real time status of anything, whether EV chargers or even traffic conditions, is very poor.
  • But I liked how the built-in nav worked when just used to go to regular destinations or addresses. The turn-by-turn directions were incorporated nicely into the IPC, and it seemed just as accurate as Google Maps or Waze when it came to actually reaching your destination. One of my favorite features is how it showed the best lane to be in when approaching any intersection or fork in the road. For example, if there were several left turn lanes, it would highlight the best lane (based upon what turns come next) in blue, whereas the other possible, but sub-optimal, lanes would be in white. This was incredibly helpful when driving in places like north NJ or NoVA where the roads and interchanges make no sense at all.
  • I haven’t taken the MME on any long road trips yet, but I am excited to try the built-in EV route planning and navigation when I do. I hope it’s a better experience!
• Frunk
  • Kona didn’t have it, and I never used the puny one in the I5. Not sure if I ever will with the MME. But the fact it has a drain is sort of cool. Time will tell.
• 1-pedal driving
  • Agree with the OP that Hyundai nailed 1-pedal drive with I5 (which they call “i-pedal”). It is silky smooth coming to a complete stop, and I think the regen braking is a bit stronger than the MME when your foot is entirely off the accelerator.
  • But that slightly more refined 1-pedal drive is a bit of a hassle to use in the I5. You cannot set it as your default in the driver profiles. The best you can do is set the highest level of regen (Level 3). Then to get to i-pedal, you need to give the regen paddles at least 1 pull … every … single … time you restart the car. So odd.

Perhaps you could confirm or deny this. When I was at the Supercharger (that requires an adapter), a EV6 showed up and she said her nav told her she could charge at the Supercharger. So does the navigation erroneously display adapter-required Superchargers that aren't compatible with your car?

 

[pcaw2003]

Perhaps you could confirm or deny this. When I was at the Supercharger (that requires an adapter), a EV6 showed up and she said her nav told her she could charge at the Supercharger. So does the navigation erroneously display adapter-required Superchargers that aren't compatible with your car?

I’ve never seen Superchargers appear in the native Hyundai navigation. But, again, I long ago stopped using it for EV charging. Typically it was simply too outdated to use.

 

[Jimrpa]

Perhaps you could confirm or deny this. When I was at the Supercharger (that requires an adapter), a EV6 showed up and she said her nav told her she could charge at the Supercharger. So does the navigation erroneously display adapter-required Superchargers that aren't compatible with your car?

The nav in the ionic 5 is crap (at least when it comes to chargers in Las Vegas).

 

[pcaw2003]

Current incentives and deals on '23 Mach-Es have the GT priced just a hair more than the Premium ER AWD. GTs are available in the $40k-$45k range.

Yes, that’s right. I was very tempted to get a GT or GTPE. But pricing is close only if you are purchasing/financing. In that case, the Ford rebate is -$1000 for Premium vs -$3000 for the GTs. That makes the pricing quite close if you’re looking to buy — only about +$1000 to get the regular GT and +$5-6000 for GTPE vs the Premium AWD Extended Range.

If you lease, it’s -$8500 for all models. In that case, the GTs are still many $1000s more.
I did the math. Even if you intend to keep the Mach-E and purchase at the residual value
after 36 months, it’s (surprisingly) cheaper to lease.

That’s true even with 0% APR for 72 months (an amazing deal!) It’s still more economical to lease, because the various fees (lease financing, origination fee, etc.) only eat up about 1/2 of the additional $7,500 off available due to the so-called “lease loophole”. The rest you can pocket.

Plus you have the option to buy out or return to the dealer after 3 years. That sort of flexibility has its own value, especially if the FMV is underwater or some new amazing tech appears in 3 years’ time. Of course, returning requires payment of a $400 disposition fee + any over mileage. So one needs to account for those costs too.

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