Is data collected during an accident (running into another vehicle) and saved in onboard system

[VRuss24]

I had an accident and while breaking it seemed like the vehicle was sliding. There was no bump, bump of the brakes like one has with anti-lock brakes. Have felt that before during a hard brake. The collision avoidance system was active, but I think I was quicker than the system. Air bags did not activate. Would sure like to know the status of data collected during the event. Appreciate any info . Thanks

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[tbrumleve]

Every car in the US since 2014 has been required to have a “black box” or “Event Data Recorder”(EDR). The data is not readily accessible by consumers.

 

[Teslaeata]

Firstly, there is no black box technology. This is fanciful fallacy.

However, there are EDRs (event data recorders) which usually reside in ACMs (airbag control modules) because they are sited theoretically in the least likely place that would become damaged on the floor or tunnel inside the centre console roughly where the floor gear change would traditionally be, or has been situated in the past.

Data is being recorded continually 2 to 5 times per second depending on the car.

A freeze frame of the last 5 seconds of pre-crash data and approximately 0.25second of actual crash data is triggered by either deployment or non deployment events.

Yours clearly was not a deployment event as no non-reversible SRS components (airbags, seatbelt pre tensioners) had not deployed from what you say.

I don’t think there are any reversible SRS components in our Stangs like Merc have with their resettable active headrests so I don’t think it’s possible a non-deployment event caused by deployment of a reversible SRS could have triggered a recording.

That leaves speed change as one possible trigger for a recording which would need to be something like 5mph within 0.15 second, or less likely from what you say, a rollover.

Braking don’t usually cause a high enough speed change so it’s either a collision or severe change in direction which might be the trigger in your case.

However, sometimes AEB (autonomous emergency braking) or even ABS or ESP activity can be a trigger for a recording of collision data, or more interestingly also, the pre-crash data.

I do download crash data from mainly dick-heads’ cars such as those toy hot hatches they drive, Golfs, S3 etc where there is a count of as high as 30 or 40 “external” trigger events in their EDRs down to the way their cars are driven.

So, you may have a trigger event recorded in there but you’d need some expert with Bosch CDR or Collision Science equipment to take an image of the EDRs recorded data.

The actual collision data may not be of as much interest to you as the pre-crash data might which records certain channels of data at between 2 and 5 times per second.

It is this data set which informs on level of occupancy, seatbelt usage at time of trigger event, steering position in degrees , vehicle speed, driver inputs such as brake application & throttle position expressed as a percentage and also ESP & ABS activity and sometimes some others.

Due to the level of training, qualification and cost of such equipment dealers usually don’t even know exists may mean it will cost you upward of 500 of your dollars to get somebody to image this data so you really need to be sure you want it badly enough for reason of cost and also because you should be prepared for what it tells you which I find is often not what an errant driver wants to know!

Hope this is helpful.

 

[VRuss24]

Thanks for all the information. I did not mention that my wife was sent an alert by Ford that I had an accident. I was not aware of that, and she was out of the country with my daughter. I saw a call from her and I was busy calling the police and did not respond right away. That triggered alarm as they thought it was something serious that happened to me.

 

[Teslaeata]

Thanks for all the information. I did not mention that my wife was sent an alert by Ford that I had an accident. I was not aware of that, and she was out of the country with my daughter. I saw a call from her and I was busy calling the police and did not respond right away. That triggered alarm as they thought it was something serious that happened to me.

Was it the car, your ‘phone or watch that sent the message? If car then it’s likely that was a non-trivial trigger event so there may be data in the EDR to image.

 

[rreddy3]

Firstly, there is no black box technology. This is fanciful fallacy.

However, there are EDRs (event data recorders) which usually reside in ACMs (airbag control modules) because they are sited theoretically in the least likely place that would become damaged on the floor or tunnel inside the centre console roughly where the floor gear change would traditionally be, or has been situated in the past.

Data is being recorded continually 2 to 5 times per second depending on the car.

A freeze frame of the last 5 seconds of pre-crash data and approximately 0.25second of actual crash data is triggered by either deployment or non deployment events.

Yours clearly was not a deployment event as no non-reversible SRS components (airbags, seatbelt pre tensioners) had not deployed from what you say.

I don’t think there are any reversible SRS components in our Stangs like Merc have with their resettable active headrests so I don’t think it’s possible a non-deployment event caused by deployment of a reversible SRS could have triggered a recording.

That leaves speed change as one possible trigger for a recording which would need to be something like 5mph within 0.15 second, or less likely from what you say, a rollover.

Braking don’t usually cause a high enough speed change so it’s either a collision or severe change in direction which might be the trigger in your case.

However, sometimes AEB (autonomous emergency braking) or even ABS or ESP activity can be a trigger for a recording of collision data, or more interestingly also, the pre-crash data.

I do download crash data from mainly dick-heads’ cars such as those toy hot hatches they drive, Golfs, S3 etc where there is a count of as high as 30 or 40 “external” trigger events in their EDRs down to the way their cars are driven.

So, you may have a trigger event recorded in there but you’d need some expert with Bosch CDR or Collision Science equipment to take an image of the EDRs recorded data.

The actual collision data may not be of as much interest to you as the pre-crash data might which records certain channels of data at between 2 and 5 times per second.

It is this data set which informs on level of occupancy, seatbelt usage at time of trigger event, steering position in degrees , vehicle speed, driver inputs such as brake application & throttle position expressed as a percentage and also ESP & ABS activity and sometimes some others.

Due to the level of training, qualification and cost of such equipment dealers usually don’t even know exists may mean it will cost you upward of 500 of your dollars to get somebody to image this data so you really need to be sure you want it badly enough for reason of cost and also because you should be prepared for what it tells you which I find is often not what an errant driver wants to know!

Hope this is helpful.

Good tutorial. Since you’re involved in accident investigations and, I believe you mentioned at one time, expert witness reports and testimony, you know insurers and counsel for both plaintiff and defendant are keen on securing the EDR (colloquial speaking, “black box”) device and data.

When I was on the defense side of design professionals in matters involving accidents in roadworks construction zones (design professionals being responsible for the design of “maintenance and protection of traffic” schemes), we regularly sought this information and of course sent notices to preserve evidence to the relevant parties.

While it might be interesting to OP to have the information I wouldn’t do anything that might result in permanent loss or corruption of the data. I’m not saying OP’s situation is going to lead to litigation but I wouldn’t consider as the person involved in the incident trying to have the data harvested. I’d throw that ball into my insurer’s court and let them figure it out with counsel.

It’s my understanding these modern, connected cars also upload data to the manufacturer about all sorts of things including accident data. I suspect there is an overlap in EDR data and data transmitted to the manufacturer.

 

[Teslaeata]

Good tutorial. Since you’re involved in accident investigations and, I believe you mentioned at one time, expert witness reports and testimony, you know insurers and counsel for both plaintiff and defendant are keen on securing the EDR (colloquial speaking, “black box”) device and data.

When I was on the defense side of design professionals in matters involving accidents in roadworks construction zones (design professionals being responsible for the design of “maintenance and protection of traffic” schemes), we regularly sought this information and of course sent notices to preserve evidence to the relevant parties.

While it might be interesting to OP to have the information I wouldn’t do anything that might result in permanent loss or corruption of the data. I’m not saying OP’s situation is going to lead to litigation but I wouldn’t consider as the person involved in the incident trying to have the data harvested. I’d throw that ball into my insurer’s court and let them figure it out with counsel.

It’s my understanding these modern, connected cars also upload data to the manufacturer about all sorts of things including accident data. I suspect there is an overlap in EDR data and data transmitted to the manufacturer.

Well, firstly, EDR download equipment is forensically neutral so does not write, alter, delete or affect in any other way EDR data so there’s no risk of corrupting or deleting data recorded by the EDR using such equipment.

Adding to a partial understanding of the connected vehicle and what data is “transmitted” I happen to know that whilst it’s possible to download Tesla’s crash data from their vehicles, or directly from an ACM removed from a car so extensively damaged it has become impossible to power up the ACM as it is possible with all makes of supported vehicles, Tesla clearly do have the EDR data transmitted to them and it’s possible to ask them directly for a copy of the crash data report.

I am unaware of any other maker who has such EDR data transmitted to them in a crash data file or at all which is not to say there are none.

So, to put your mind at rest, and that of the OP’s, imaging the crash data would not affect it or risk altering or contaminating the evidence.

 

[rreddy3]

Good to know.

 

[rreddy3]

Some reporting in this country suggests Tesla tends to play hide the ball with crash data from time to time…

 

[Teslaeata]

Some reporting in this country suggests Tesla tends to play hide the ball with crash data from time to time…

Interesting!

Tesla are just great for this in UK & probably I think in Europe.

Outside US a lot of makers do exactly the same as you find Tesla do in US hiding the ball which is very unhelpful and, in my view, actually supports fraud, the investigation of which I have been widely instructed to assist over the years.

Anyhow, I am only 2 days for this world of work, retiring Tuesday evening so aiming to sell all my equipment!

 

[rreddy3]

Good for you. I retired 10 years ago this November. I have to tell you, it is a tough gig, but someone has to do it!!

enjoy retirement, have fun, travel, it’s a big world out there, a fact occasionally lost on some people, but I’m sure not lost on you!!

 

[Teslaeata]

Good for you. I retired 10 years ago this November. I have to tell you, it is a tough gig, but someone has to do it!!

enjoy retirement, have fun, travel, it’s a big world out there, a fact occasionally lost on some people, but I’m sure not lost on you!!

Wow! 10 years!!

That just might explain your experience with Tesla and other EDR.

It’s come on in that time.

I’ve specialised in EDR for around 5 years and whilst it’s not perfect now it was like a beta version just 5 years ago, very clunky!

That Tesla EDR retrieval kit’s the same worldwide and is probably amongst the best despite that most Tesla’s somehow were allowed to be produced with no industry standard OBD port.

They do, however, in their software provide very specific instructions on where to find the data link connector and how to remove which trims to gain access to it.

The OP may be interested to see his data and if he wishes to pay the 350 Canadian Dollars it’d cost me to do a download with the Collision Science kit I’d share my login details if he has a Bluetooth OBD reader.

 

[rreddy3]

Wow! 10 years!!

That just might explain your experience with Tesla and other EDR.

It’s come on in that time.

I’ve specialised in EDR for around 5 years and whilst it’s not perfect now it was like a beta version just 5 years ago, very clunky!

That Tesla EDR retrieval kit’s the same worldwide and is probably amongst the best despite that most Tesla’s somehow were allowed to be produced with no industry standard OBD port.

They do, however, in their software provide very specific instructions on where to find the data link connector and how to remove which trims to gain access to it.

The OP may be interested to see his data and if he wishes to pay the 350 Canadian Dollars it’d cost me to do a download with the Collision Science kit I’d share my login details if he has a Bluetooth OBD reader.

yep…10 years with technology is ~ to several light years I guess.

Are you keeping Stangy? That car has been good to you by all accounts.

I think OP might be in Virginia, his location says Va, a common abbreviation for Virginia, also seen as VA, both letters capitalized.

enjoy your last day and a half of the working world !

 

[Mach1E]

I had an accident and while breaking it seemed like the vehicle was sliding. There was no bump, bump of the brakes like one has with anti-lock brakes. Have felt that before during a hard brake. The collision avoidance system was active, but I think I was quicker than the system. Air bags did not activate. Would sure like to know the status of data collected during the event. Appreciate any info . Thanks

Probably easier to test or find out is how our cars work with our antilock brake system.

That “bump bump bump” feeling may not be a thing with our blended braking system.

You also mention you think you were faster than the collision avoidance system. Does that mean you rear ended someone? Not sure if our collision avoidance goes “full brake” or not.

 

[Teslaeata]

yep…10 years with technology is ~ to several light years I guess.

Are you keeping Stangy? That car has been good to you by all accounts.

I think OP might be in Virginia, his location says Va, a common abbreviation for Virginia, also seen as VA, both letters capitalized.

enjoy your last day and a half of the working world !

Yes, Stangy’s been good to me, it’s my Company’s company car so will probably buy it personally off the biz.

Its trade value’s only about £10k now so it will hardly break the bank and I really do still like it.

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