Article: E.P.A. Plans New Pollution Rules. May Drive More EV Sales

Link to the article. No pay wall
E.P.A. Is Said to Propose Rules Meant to Drive Up Electric Car Sales Tenfold

Wow, @mkhuffman is going to blow some major blood vessels over this. ?

RickMachE said:

Wow, @mkhuffman is going to blow some major blood vessels over this. ?

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And I was having a good day today!

The EPA sucks.

SMH.

Yeah I think that's a bit of an overreach considering the automakers are already at their supply chain limits trying to make enough electric cars for those that freely choose to buy them.

This sort of thing should only be considered if electric adoption badly stagnates in consumer segments and it's clear there's excess production capacity not being utilized. But I think the free market has enough challenges currently where that won't be necessary. Not to mention the charger network isn't developed enough yet to handle the overcrowding.

Shoving EVs down peoples' throats by making gas cars prohibitively expensive is not the right way. Make the EVs cheaper and better so people naturally want to switch.

This is reminiscent of California's CARB setting unobtainable levels of zero emissions vehicles (ZEV) in the 1990's. They set a target of 10% electric by 2003 thinking automakers could be magically forced into making them, but in reality only a tiny sliver of vehicles were fully electric by then. An electric car cost up to 10x as much to produce as a gas vehicle back then (GM's EV1 was estimated to cost $80k in 1996 vs. $10K for a Chevy Cavalier). There were lawsuits and CARB caved by allowing hybrid PZEVs vehicles to qualify as well. It wasn't until 2021 that a true 10% ZEV threshold was reached in California, some 18 years later than originally planned. 1990's CARB severely underestimated how difficult it would be to produce a large market share of electric vehicles at prices an average person could afford. It is not something that can be done in only a few years without prohibitive expense to consumers.

Like any goal, one's reach should exceed their grasp. Just because an environmental goal wasn't met, doesn't mean that we should stop trying.

The marketplace's number one priority is profit.
Seems to me that protecting the environment is more important than an unfettered marketplace. Regulation forces the marketplace to do what needs to be done to protect the environment, because it won't on its own. Letting the marketplace do as it pleases means it will never happen because it reduces profits. I'd like to see these rules adopted.

What are they doing about the infrastructure? In So Cal, we're already getting rolling black outs, and last year we were told not to charge our EVs because of the strain on the grid.

It's going to get ugly unless they beef up the infrastructure.

Ghost Ryder said:

What are they doing about the infrastructure? In So Cal, we're already getting rolling black outs, and last year we were told not to charge our EVs because of the strain on the grid.

It's going to get ugly unless they beef up the infrastructure.

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It's going to be hard to beef up the infrastructure when the EPA puts so many restrictions on how energy can be produced and delivered.

This is so ridiculous. They are forcing car manufacturers to produce more expensive cars that use more electricity, and then they are forcing power plants to shut down or implement very expensive modifications. So they drive up the cost of electricity, make it less reliable and less available, and then force us to buy electric cars.

Imagine being poor and living paycheck to paycheck, and every day the government is working to increase the cost of everything you do. I am fortunate not to be in that situation, but so many are. These policies are going to drive up poverty for sure.

The EPA sucks.

mkhuffman said:

It's going to be hard to beef up the infrastructure when the EPA puts so many restrictions on how energy can be produced and delivered.

This is so ridiculous. They are forcing car manufacturers to produce more expensive cars that use more electricity, and then they are forcing power plants to shut down or implement very expensive modifications. So they drive up the cost of electricity, make it less reliable and less available, and then force us to buy electric cars.

Imagine being poor and living paycheck to paycheck, and every day the government is working to increase the cost of everything you do. I am fortunate not to be in that situation, but so many are. These policies are going to drive up poverty for sure.

The EPA sucks.

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Its going to be really bad. This year, our gas bill went up 4 folds. And its not that we used more gas. It just cost more because of all the regulations and world events. It went from $200 a month to $900. Ouch.

I have a feeling electricity will get a similar bump once demand increase. We're already at $.53/kw during peak times.

Turning EVs into a political hotbutton that pisses off half the country is going to backfire bigtime.

ArthurDOB said:

Like any goal, one's reach should exceed their grasp. Just because an environmental goal wasn't met, doesn't mean that we should stop trying.

The marketplace's number one priority is profit.
Seems to me that protecting the environment is more important than an unfettered marketplace. Regulation forces the marketplace to do what needs to be done to protect the environment, because it won't on its own. Letting the marketplace do as it pleases means it will never happen because it reduces profits. I'd like to see these rules adopted.

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That sounds great, but falls on deaf ears to the person living in Appalachia who needs a cheap vehicle for work and can't afford a $60k pickup.

If we're worried about protecting the environment, why not focus on China and India where the overwhelming majority of pollution is created?

I'll add, manufacturers have been stretching engineering and manufacturing to the limits to meet emissions and CAFE as it is. This has resulted in things like cylinder deactivation and low tension oil rings which lead to premature failure and ultimately means these vehicles are going to the crusher earlier and earlier. The days of keeping an ICE vehicle on the road for 25+ years are probably over, and it's in no small part because of regulation.

Goals are nice to have but I’d be happier with more mass transit options and make those run on renewable energy. We desperately need a reliable train from West to East Florida. I-4 has become a massive choke point and more EVs won’t solve that issue.

A better goal from my point of view is all ICE to be hybrid, or at least most to be hybrid. I think this is the best compromise