Engineering Explained: Best practices tips to slow down LFP Battery degrading & extend SOH life

GolfCoyote · Aug 23, 2024

This video should help settle some confusion.

Video Description:

Electric cars are becoming increasingly popular, but a common concern remains for many owners - what about the battery? Most batteries used in electric cars today come with one of two major chemistries: Nickel Manganese Cobalt (NMC) or Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP). LFP batteries are rising in popularity as they're cheaper to manufacturer, and more sustainable since they use more common materials. Each chemistry has unique properties, and benefits from specific best practices, as it relates to making the battery last for a long time. This video will look at the latest research and discuss four major best practices for LFP batteries when it comes to capacity retention and longevity.

TheSeg · Aug 23, 2024

The video goes into this, but just to record in text:

If the 8th digit of your VIN is a "5" or "6", you have an LFP battery and the OP's linked video applies to the car.

Otherwise, you have a NMC battery. Engineering Explained made this video for NMC.

kindofblue · Aug 23, 2024

Watching the video for the NMC batteries makes me wonder if our MMEs' batteries would be better served by only charging up to 75% instead of 90% that the manual recommends. @Ford Motor Company Your thoughts please.

Snakebitten · Aug 23, 2024

The local Ford account would not likely respond to the tag for technical questions. It's simply not a fit for what historically that account is for.

But man wouldn't it be awesome if that WAS an intended function of the account!

AHoss75 · Aug 23, 2024

TheSeg said:
The video goes into this, but just to record in text:

If the 8th digit of your VIN is a "5" or "6", you have an LFP battery and the OP's linked video applies to the car.

Otherwise, you have a NMC battery. Engineering Explained made this video for NMC.

Huh I had no idea VINs contained info like that. What else can we tell from the VIN? Is there somewhere I can read up on this?

kdonnel · Aug 23, 2024

kindofblue said:
Watching the video for the NMC batteries makes me wonder if our MMEs' batteries would be better served by only charging up to 75% instead of 90% that the manual recommends. @Ford Motor Company Your thoughts please.

The difference between regularly charging to 75 or 90% can’t counteract time. I believe the biggest detriment to a battery with a good BMS is time. The battery gets old and there is nothing anyone can do about time.

Teslaeata · Aug 23, 2024

AHoss75 said:
Huh I had no idea VINs contained info like that. What else can we tell from the VIN? Is there somewhere I can read up on this?

All sorts! Look up VIN decoders.

DYohn · Aug 23, 2024

Welcome to VIN Decoding :: provided by vPIC (dot.gov)

AHoss75 · Aug 23, 2024

DYohn said:
Welcome to VIN Decoding :: provided by vPIC (dot.gov)

Huh.. according to that I don't have the extended range battery but I definitely do.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Engineering Explained: Best practices tips to slow down LFP Battery degrading & extend SOH life Screenshot_20240823-161233

profdraper · Aug 23, 2024

kindofblue said:
Watching the video for the NMC batteries makes me wonder if our MMEs' batteries would be better served by only charging up to 75% instead of 90% that the manual recommends. @Ford Motor Company Your thoughts please.

A useful & enthusiastic video for sure, but I also find some detail missing, eg:
What about battery balancing or ‘equalisation’ as recommended by say MG and BYD? ie after a 100% charge then car then trickle charges for a while to actively reset the state of the battery cells.

And that topic has been widespread in the MG community for the last five years or so & as also evidenced in my own ownership of two MG ZS EVs over the years, the first early model with an NMC battery, the second with a (Chinese CATL) LFP battery - exactly the same tech as the Mach-E Select BTW & now about to be produced in Ford’s new Michigan-based battery factory under license from CATL.

Except for the MME Select, ALL other models use an NMC battery for longer range but of course are limited by having to charge to 80% on a regular basis (pretty much the same range as a fully charged LFP Select model). Personally, I went for the Select after have owned both NMC & LFP MGs & would never go back to NMC. Watch that space & see what’s coming out of China shortly with both CATL & BYD’s new LFP batterys, eg:
https://electrek.co/2024/04/25/catl-unveils-worlds-first-lfp-battery-4c-ultra-fast-charging/

In the case of BYD, ALL of their BEVs run on LFP batteries (soon a v2 Blade Battery similar to CATL). In any case, BYD explicitly recommended running down to 10% & charging up to 100% every 6 weeks or so to balance the battery, improve the GoM etc.

And this one is what is somewhat missing from this video: based on some Chinese manufacturer’s recommendations, and my own experience with both chemistries over the years - is not just the 100% charge state AND balancing routine, is also what SoC we charge up FROM.

Personally, I find BYD’s recommendations a little inconvenient & don’t really want to be driving around on 10% or so (had that happen once when my wife had to go to hospital emergency overnight; not good). BUT I do get down to the 30% mark regularly then charge up to 100%. My MME Select seems to like it & the GoM has steadily improved. I also have observed that same trickle charge at the end of the cycle & after having let the battery run down a fair bit as described.

Ford don’t refer to ‘balancing’ at all, but some of the Chinese manufacturers do, Worth taking a look, same chemistries for now, either LFP of NMC but increasingly looking like new LFPs arr coming to replace the need for NMCs.

profdraper · Aug 23, 2024

TheSeg said:
The video goes into this, but just to record in text:

If the 8th digit of your VIN is a "5" or "6", you have an LFP battery and the OP's linked video applies to the car.

Otherwise, you have a NMC battery. Engineering Explained made this video for NMC.

Simple: ALL MME Select models have an LFP battery; the rest are NMC.

Billyk24 · Aug 23, 2024

kdonnel said:
The difference between regularly charging to 75 or 90% can’t counteract time. I believe the biggest detriment to a battery with a good BMS is time. The battery gets old and there is nothing anyone can do about time.

Heat is an issue causing degradation.

generaltso · Aug 23, 2024

profdraper said:
Simple: ALL MME Select models have an LFP battery; the rest are NMC.

That‘s all kinds of wrong.

AZBill · Aug 23, 2024

profdraper said:
A useful & enthusiastic video for sure, but I also find some detail missing, eg:
What about battery balancing or ‘equalisation’ as recommended by say MG and BYD? ie after a 100% charge then car then trickle charges for a while to actively reset the state of the battery cells.

And that topic has been widespread in the MG community for the last five years or so & as also evidenced in my own ownership of two MG ZS EVs over the years, the first early model with an NMC battery, the second with a (Chinese CATL) LFP battery - exactly the same tech as the Mach-E Select BTW & now about to be produced in Ford’s new Michigan-based battery factory under license from CATL.

Except for the MME Select, ALL other models use an NMC battery for longer range but of course are limited by having to charge to 80% on a regular basis (pretty much the same range as a fully charged LFP Select model). Personally, I went for the Select after have owned both NMC & LFP MGs & would never go back to NMC. Watch that space & see what’s coming out of China shortly with both CATL & BYD’s new LFP batterys, eg:
https://electrek.co/2024/04/25/catl-unveils-worlds-first-lfp-battery-4c-ultra-fast-charging/

In the case of BYD, ALL of their BEVs run on LFP batteries (soon a v2 Blade Battery similar to CATL). In any case, BYD explicitly recommended running down to 10% & charging up to 100% every 6 weeks or so to balance the battery, improve the GoM etc.

And this one is what is somewhat missing from this video: based on some Chinese manufacturer’s recommendations, and my own experience with both chemistries over the years - is not just the 100% charge state AND balancing routine, is also what SoC we charge up FROM.

Personally, I find BYD’s recommendations a little inconvenient & don’t really want to be driving around on 10% or so (had that happen once when my wife had to go to hospital emergency overnight; not good). BUT I do get down to the 30% mark regularly then charge up to 100%. My MME Select seems to like it & the GoM has steadily improved. I also have observed that same trickle charge at the end of the cycle & after having let the battery run down a fair bit as described.

Ford don’t refer to ‘balancing’ at all, but some of the Chinese manufacturers do, Worth taking a look, same chemistries for now, either LFP of NMC but increasingly looking like new LFPs arr coming to replace the need for NMCs.

All EV batteries get balanced by the BMS, this is not a Chinese thing. And balancing does not require the battery to be at 100%, just in a steady state.

Fremont Kid · Aug 23, 2024

The 8th digit of my VIN is 'U'.

Engineering Explained: Best practices tips to slow down LFP Battery degrading & extend SOH life

GolfCoyote

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TheSeg

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kindofblue

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Snakebitten

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AHoss75

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kdonnel

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Teslaeata

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DYohn

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AHoss75

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profdraper

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profdraper

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Billyk24

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generaltso

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AZBill

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Fremont Kid

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